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It's No Moon

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Re: It's No Moon

Postby Andreas » Sun May 10, 2020 7:06 pm

vitos wrote in Sun May 10, 2020 5:47 pm:While adding 10% max to already made model and own name into list of developers at same level as mine allowed someone to say it's example of how Open Source should work.

Excuse my sarcasm, but If it bothers you that my name is at the "same level" as yours and that I value our team effort as an example of successful community work, then I suggest you check your famous communist spirit some time :twisted:

Actually I contributed to your fame as a developer by correcting quite a few obvious errors in your model and still always reminded everyone that you are its main creator. Have you even bothered to look at the list of things I corrected and why I did so? Well, you should before you question my contribution, or if you want to improve yourself. You can find it here: http://www.zenner.cc/fgfs/version_3.1_upgrade_notes.txt. I'm happy to discuss it.

vitos wrote in Sun May 10, 2020 5:47 pm:Ten years ago here was standard planes package, and a pile of any other models. MiG went not into package, but into pile...

I don't know about these things, or what happened to your Vostok model. I'm sorry if you made bad experiences, but I know for sure that I never treated you wrong and still you somehow feel mistreated while being pretty disrespectful yourself.

In Germany there is a saying that goes: "The way how you shout into the forest is how the forest will shout back at you". Which basically means: "It's about Karma, dude!"
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Re: It's No Moon

Postby vitos » Sun May 10, 2020 7:29 pm

I don't know about these things


Well, You had ask me, I answered You, now You know, partially. You may get my answer as it is, or try to tell me that there is some problems at my feelings, which I do not have about all this since long ago.

As of mistakes - again, You may just compare common MiG-15 with private Su-15.

As of names - I meant wiki page mostly

Author(s)

Lee Elliott (initial 3d model)
Victor Slavutinsky
Ludovic Brenta
Andreas Zenner


which median user would look first and last; though, these are not that much part of problem, so don't escalate. It's unreasonable as problem as whole is big enough to not to try to fix it.
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Re: It's No Moon

Postby bugman » Sun May 10, 2020 8:39 pm

vitos wrote in Sun May 10, 2020 7:29 pm:As of names - I meant wiki page mostly


I need to update that Mig-15 wiki page to use the new aircraft infobox template, and add the hangar information. The names there are almost matching those in the *-set.xml file. Are you disputing the history? Do you think that the original author should be removed from the list, or pushed to the end of the list, if another authors does 'more' than the others? Maybe you need to add "(3D, FDM, Systems)" behind your name?

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Re: It's No Moon

Postby vitos » Sun May 10, 2020 8:46 pm

Well, to be honest, I do not care much. If I meant that should be fixed, I would fix it myself. From my view MiG-15 just did not work as planned, after which I lost interest to it - same as Vostok-1, but with other details, and same as Su-15/MPClash, after which I consider whole attempt to make something with this simulator and its community is complete no-go, useful at means of comprehending why some things are stuck only.

Paradoxically, from that side it works - as principles, by which instead of working thing You are having conversation about how good next generation universal solutions would be and so are same everywhere.
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Re: It's No Moon

Postby Thorsten » Mon May 11, 2020 5:24 am

I just wonder why it was not implemented yet, to make it "first open flight to the Moon". Too complicated still, should be.


If you would read what people write, you could stop wondering - it's not implemented because no one is sufficiently interested (and presumably because for the only interested person - you - it's too complicated). I on the other hand have GPL code to simulate the moon in an Earth-centered coordinate system - but am... not interested in porting any of that to FG (as I've said a dozen times now).

Ten years ago here was standard planes package, and a pile of any other models. MiG went not into package, but into pile, most models of which had't 3D cockpits at all.


Even if it would have been true 10 years ago (which it wasn't - the competing models all had 3d cockpits) - it would be... ten years ago. Do you really want to be that guy who tells his grandchildren how 50 years ago he was wronged when his model wasn't selected to the base package? Seriously?

See what I mean - you're convinced you're the best of the best and therefore there cannot be an innocent reason for not selecting your model (like there's strong competition) - it has to be a conspiracy and what most of us shrug off with a smile - for you it's an insult.

I had tried it - it's just slow.


Yes. You realized that. Good.

Now make the connection - 'no tricks' = 'just slow' 'tricks' = 'very fast'.

That's why we're using all these tricks when designing a rendering strategy. :D

As of names - I meant wiki page mostly


It's a... wiki. You can go ahead and correct it.But no - you have to make an accusation that other names appear on par with yours - because you expect everyone else to realize what you know all the time - that you're not just a really good developer but the best of the best.

Alas... :D
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Re: It's No Moon

Postby vitos » Tue May 12, 2020 5:26 am

I am constructive, it takes a lot to make me ignore someone, but since it was made, any relation can not be restored, as I just have not any more resources for this.

There is difference between wise and smart. For wise I said enough, while smart always could find some arguments against it.

Good luck.
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Re: It's No Moon

Postby Thorsten » Tue May 12, 2020 6:36 am

I am constructive


No, you have been constructive a long time ago :D

as I just have not any more resources for this.


Why are you discussing then? Did someone write you an offensive email? It seems a spam bot posted something and you felt the need to answer it - which indicates that you have the resources to monitor the forum and answer.

There is difference between wise and smart. For wise I said enough, while smart always could find some arguments against it.


Well, what are you doing creeping around in a forum you don't like asking for a moon rocket no one wants? That doesn't sound very wise to me.

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Re: It's No Moon

Postby DFaber » Tue May 12, 2020 6:53 am

vitos wrote in Sun May 10, 2020 5:47 pm:Ten years ago here was standard planes package, and a pile of any other models. MiG went not into package, but into pile, most models of which had't 3D cockpits at all.


For the record: Back than, 3D Cockpits were a pretty new thing and devs have just started to use them. Flightgear was distributed as a Download, containing only a few Aircraft in the Base-package. Since Bandwidth wasn't as affordable as today, it was agreed, that the Standard Aircraft shouldn't be too big, regarding file size, or too hard to fly for an average User. The MiG-15, while still being an impressive Model, failed both criteria.

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Re: It's No Moon

Postby AndersG » Wed May 13, 2020 11:45 am

DFaber wrote in Tue May 12, 2020 6:53 am:For the record: Back than, 3D Cockpits were a pretty new thing and devs have just started to use them.


Back in 2010 3d cockpits had been around for at least 2 years (this because I see that I moved some of my screenshots of S.S. Zero in 2008 and that was far from the first 3d cockpit). Probably, the first came about 2005 or so?
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Re: It's No Moon

Postby Hooray » Sun May 17, 2020 4:06 pm

Even earlier than that, I am pretty sure that I've seen 3D cockpits in fgfs in the early 2000s, and to be honest, I was indeed rather impressed - even though, my PC back then wasn't too well equipped to actually use such a cockpit, it still was quite a feat ... I guess someone could check the git logs to know for sure ;-)
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Re: It's No Moon

Postby Thorsten » Sun May 17, 2020 5:54 pm

Well, I guess it wasn't GIT but CVS back then...
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Re: It's No Moon

Postby Hooray » Sun May 17, 2020 6:02 pm

sure, but the commit logs should be retained "as is", i.e. there was a cvs2git script to migrate things AFAIR
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Re: It's No Moon

Postby bugman » Mon May 18, 2020 7:56 pm

Yes, the CVS log messages were converted into git messages. The first commit I can find in the old Gitorious fgdata repository (that I have a local copy of) is:

commit 1152dfbf0376897a3639852f368a2399ceec1a80
Author: david <david>
Date: Sun Mar 10 21:09:39 2002 +0000

C172 with highly experimental, unfinished 3-D cockpit mockup using
Andy's virtual-panel support. This will give a first taste of flying
with a 3D cockpit, but there are many caveats:

1. Clicking on the instruments doesn't work (waiting for a fix from
Andy).

2. The instruments rotate with the 3D cockpit but they don't tilt with
it (also waiting for a fix from Andy).

3. The orientation is incorrect when the view is not straight-forwards
and the plane is not flying level (waiting for a fix from me, but I
don't understand matrix math well enough).

4. The 3D interior is fairly ugly right now.


So 2002 would have been the start of 3D cockpits.

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Re: It's No Moon

Postby wlbragg » Mon May 18, 2020 8:01 pm

Gees, and I thought we have visual issue now days, ha!
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