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FGUK EF2000 Questions

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FGUK EF2000 Questions

Postby selh8 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:32 pm

Hello guys

I'm unsure if this is the right place to post this topic but I assume it can be moved if it's in the wrong place.

The reason I'm not asking this on the FGUK website is because I am unable to register an account on that website because the Capcha is broken on one page, and the page named "Register" is a dead link - if someone is able to inform the site owner of this then I think it would be worth doing.

Anyway, I recently downloaded Flightgear and one of the first things I did was download the EF2000 from the FGUK website. I also downloaded a different version of the Eurofighter and found them both to be quite different - the FGUK one is less sensitive with my joystick and feels much better to fly, but as someone who doesn't know very much about aircraft and especially not the Eurofighter, some things puzzled me.

The first thing thing I've noticed is that the airbrake appears to extend down into the body of the aircraft. Either this is broken, or this particular model is a top secret experimental one. On top of that, the airbrake seems to only have one setting which would appear to be its maximum setting because it's really effective at killing speed.
There also seems to be no control over the slats - I have tried everything from just mashing every button on my keyboard to reconfiguring the keys on my joystick but it just seems to be a waste of time.
The non-FGUK version gives you full control of the slats and the airbrake works and can be placed in different positions, however you can only make extremely subtle movements on the joystick which makes it rather difficult to control. Is this realistic? If so, I'll continue to use this version since it seems to have everything except a highly developed cockpit. This is as opposed to the version on the FGUK website where the joystick doesn't seem to be that sensitive (and the cockpit is well-developed) but it seems to lack the other faculties. You can also manually start the engines on this version but there's no tutorial.


So I am guessing that these things just haven't been worked on properly yet by the developer of the aircraft, but it does also lead me to have some questions about the EF2000 in real life, since I know next to nothing about it.
In a lot of videos I've seen, neither the airbrakes or the slats seem to be used by the aircraft on landing. Since this is the case, how does the pilot reduce the aircraft's speed? Is there reverse thrust on the aircraft or does he just gradually close the throttle so that his speed is low enough when he comes into land that he can actually stop the aircraft in time.

Anyway, thanks to anyone who's able to answer any of these questions, and sorry if I've posted it in the wrong place :p
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Re: FGUK EF2000 Questions

Postby StuartC » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:00 pm

On the FGUK one.
The In-folding Speed brake appears to be an animation issue, the function of the actual speed brake in the FDM is working ok. Its just a visual error.
The Slats are controlled by the FCS, no user manual input for them.
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Re: FGUK EF2000 Questions

Postby Algernon » Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:33 am

Hi - I'm the principal designer and developer of the FGUK EF2000. Thanks for downloading and flying it! I thought I'd just add a couple of thoughts to Stuart's observations above.

Firstly, yes the speed brake animation is broken on a certain release, and goes the wrong way. It's been fixed now on the latest development version, but I didn't know it was still a problem on the download release. I'll get it fixed.

The EF2000 was created because I love the Eurofighter but, about ten years ago, believed the original FlightGear community development of the aircraft to be moving far away from realism and in fact worked and flew nothing like the actual aircraft, with some very imaginative but innacurate cockpit work. It is of course very difficult to develop accurate sim models of current generation aircraft because so little information is available about them: I even hung out at RAF Coningsby with some Typhoon pilots, but found them very careful about what they told simmers - apparently, the RAF is quite concerned about the potential for national security risks by those of us who like to emulate their aircraft! But anyway, the EF2000 has been built with a focus on realism where possible, attempting to simluate an extremely complex aircraft with only my mediocre FG development skills, and it's still a long way from completion.

The first and most important thing to know about is the Flight Control System. The FGUK EF2000 is entirely controlled by FCS - the control inputs convey your wishes to the aircraft, and the aircraft tries to do what you want as efficiently and safely as possible. No control inputs are connected directly to any flight or gear control (even the nosewheel steering). It's obviously only a rough simulation of what the real aircraft can do, but it works pretty well and, as you have noticed, it gives the aircraft some degree of the "carefree handling" that its real-life counterpart has. The speedbrake is part of this - there is a dedicated FCS input for it, which is intended to be mapped to a wheel or slider on a joystick. I'm not at home at the moment, but once I am, I'll refresh my memory and let you know how to map it to your joystick controls. As Stuart points out, the slats are entirely managed by the FCS and not under direct pilot control. As with the real aircraft (as far as I can tell), their deployment is based on flight data and the selected Phase of Flight. Also, bear in mind that the animations may be difficult to detect - the amount of slat movement is quite subtle and difficult to detect.

The Eurofighter does not have reverse thrust facility. The standard approach is, IIRC, to approach at high alpha and minimal throttle at about 140kts, then do a gentle flare and reduce throttle to idle until the gear touches (at about 120kts). Then, nosewheel down and brake (or use the drag chute - not yet implemented on the EF2000). It does however have a lift dump facility for short landings - you occasionally see this being used in videos, and it is simulated to some extent on the EF2000 but is not fine-tuned and can be a bit brutal if used at speeds in excess of normal landing. Lift dump is designed to cancel out all the airframe's inherent lift and increase surface friction on the gear by generating drag with the surfaces, even the rudder - I don't know how it actually works in real life (the pilots were rather tight-lipped about it), but on the EF2000, switch it in (left console panel, right forward area) before landing and, as your nosewheel touches, the wings, tail and canards all blossom to create drag and help slow you down.

If you want to do manual engine startup, just watch the autostart and then do the same yourself! Roughly, this is: Battery on, APU start, left and right fuel pumps on, then hit the start switch. All of this is done on the right hand console, with the switches and APU button just behind the interior lighting switches. You probably have to manually switch on the LCD displays too.

Hope all this helps.
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Re: FGUK EF2000 Questions

Postby RobAndrew » Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:39 pm

Yes, I downloaded a variation of this model as well some time back. This one had been developed by a few other developers as well to add a little more detail. I hear there Is another being developed at the moment? Or maybe it's the same one being "Upgraded"? Don't know.

The Whole information thing is unfortunately very true. I myself try and aim to fly aircraft that are actually in service to this day (To add realism I guess?) unfortunately their cockpits can be quite limited, which can be disheartning. Again, I've thought about developing them myself, but again, lack of information out there. quite rightly so I guess :(

Either way, I look forward to the new one coming out, will certainly put some hours in to it. I'm currently creating a tutorial for interceptions with the aircraft. Just waiting for 2019.1!
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Re: FGUK EF2000 Questions

Postby Algernon » Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:05 pm

So just to clarify, there are two models of the aircraft known as the Typhoon to the RAF (that I know of) for FlightGear. One is "eurofighter", which is I think Rob is referring to as having had a number of developers. The other is "my" FGUK "EF2000" (the non-British classification) which has a different FDM, different model, and was coded from the ground up to incorporate the FCS and take full advantage of multiplayer functions.

I don't know the current development status of the "eurofighter". The FGUK EF2000 is still under development (though I've been on a break for a while) and will be getting a lot more attention as new stuff is developed in FlightGear - first and foremost, sorting out exterior lighting that is currently handled by Rembrandt, but will stop working when Rembrandt is dropped in upcoming versions. I expect to release updated versions every few months, and I also intend to get some documentation written to help you operate the aircraft's systems, start-up from cold, customise your aircraft OS and use advanced functions such as MIDS tactical situation data integration and remote mission profile push.

If anyone wants to get hold of it, I'll tidy up a few odds and ends and get the latest version uploaded to the FGUK Hangar, and post a link here when it's done. I'll aim for the coming weekend to have that done.
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Re: FGUK EF2000 Questions

Postby Algernon » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:38 pm

I forgot - there is also an Operation Red Flag version too!
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Re: FGUK EF2000 Questions

Postby Octal450 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:47 pm

Pinto and I have been (slowly) working on a more realistic JSBsim one with a proper FCS, FLYBYWIRE, and dynamically unstable behavior. This is the OPRF one you speak of, buts it's still early along.

Kind Regards,
Josh
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Re: FGUK EF2000 Questions

Postby RobAndrew » Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:50 am

Yeah, the one I was was refering to is able to shoot missiles-so I'm guessing OPRF!
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Re: FGUK EF2000 Questions

Postby PINTO » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:55 pm

The OPRF one that shoots missiles is out of date and no longer supported, so YMMV.
Actively developing the MiG-21bis (link to repo) (link to thread)

http://opredflag.com is an active flightgear dogfighting community (using a system that isn’t bombable)
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