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Manual IFR tutorial needs updating.

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Manual IFR tutorial needs updating.

Postby Toric » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:07 pm

Ive been trying to learn from the manual, and its been going well so far, however, some information around livermore airport seems to have changed. For one, the AI ATC does not work, seemingly at any airport, for any but basic ground operations. Secondly, the following changes have been made to charts:

The manteca VORTAC (ECA) No longer shows up on charts, nor is it listed as an intersecting radial of SUNOL in airnav. No station in the area uses 116.0MHz.

The ILS approach plate for KLVK livermore is now quite different, and the tutorial doesnt really teach you how to read it, meaning that its explinations are out of date and leave the reader unable to figure it out from up to date charts.

The REIGA NDB no longer appears on charts, nor on the ILS approach plate.

TRACY seems to be a NDB, instead of a VOR-DME based fix? I might be reading the charts wrong...

This is observed with data from airnav.com and skyvector.com, as I was trying to follow along and learn to plan my own routes with what I learned from the tutorial.

If I am wrong about this and am misreading the charts, please point out so, and give me an idea of how to read this stuff correctly. Im just trying to learn here, after all.
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Re: Manual IFR tutorial needs updating.

Postby Thorsten » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:12 am

I guess the underlying issue is that reality and airnav.com have a faster update cycle of navaids and procedures than FG. I don't know of a good solution - what help is it to update a tutorial to match reality when the navaid isn't there in the FG scenery?
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Re: Manual IFR tutorial needs updating.

Postby Toric » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:57 pm

I just realized that I didnt actually check to see if the fixes were present in flightgear... Where does flightgear even get the data for all the navigation fixes?
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Re: Manual IFR tutorial needs updating.

Postby wkitty42 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:08 pm

from data files in fgdata (aka --fg-root)...
Code: Select all
Navaids/awy.dat.gz
Navaids/carrier_nav.dat.gz
Navaids/fix.dat.gz
Navaids/nav.dat.gz
Navaids/poi.dat.gz
Navaids/TACAN_freq.dat.gz
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Manual IFR tutorial needs updating.

Postby Toric » Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:03 am

Sorry, I meant where are they sourced/scraped from?
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Re: Manual IFR tutorial needs updating.

Postby wkitty42 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:56 am

they were originally pulled from the x-plane gateway, IIRC...

[time passes]

yup... here's the header from nav.dat.gz...
Code: Select all
810 Version - data cycle 2013.10, build 20131334, metadata NavXP810.  Copyright <A9> 2013, Robin A. Peel (robin@x-plane.com).   This data is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or (at your option) any later version.  This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the GNU General Public License for more details.  You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License along with this program ("AptNavGNULicence.txt"); if not, write to the Free Software Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place, Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA.

i don't know where they got it from but i would assume from standard sources that allowed them to redistribute them... that redistribution may not be allowed any more but i don't know for sure...

looks like something called NavXP810 was involved? this search may provide more insight: https://www.google.com/search?q=NavXP810
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Manual IFR tutorial needs updating.

Postby Warty » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:10 am

It came from X-Plane - a legacy format used in versions 8.10 to 10.52. You can decompress it and edit it (if you have a text-editor capable of handling the size of it). If you then re-.gz it, it will work. Here is the file format:

https://developer.x-plane.com/article/navigation-data-nav-dat-earth_nav-dat-file-format-specification/

This particular one is very old (2013) but it is GPL - a gift from X-Plane :)

here is a .pdf version:

http://developer.x-plane.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/XP-NAV810-Spec.pdf
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Re: Manual IFR tutorial needs updating.

Postby V12 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:07 am

Exists any free and fresh nav database for FG ? Flying on Vatsim needs actual procedures and navigation database.
Fly high, fly fast - fly Concorde !
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Re: Manual IFR tutorial needs updating.

Postby Isaak » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:01 am

Not that I know of. If you have a navigraph subscription you can download the Xplane format though and replace the nav.dat en fix.dat with the most recent one. You can only do this locally though, as your subscription to Navigraph is strictly personal. If an annual subscription to Navigraph is too expensive, you can consider buying one cycle so you can at least bring it up to date to today.
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Re: Manual IFR tutorial needs updating.

Postby V12 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:11 am

Thank You, I know about Navigraph solution.
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