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Proposition to eliminate all WIKIS

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Re: Proposition to eliminate all WIKIS

Postby hans05 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:09 pm

Maerchenprinz wrote in Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:18 am:Thanks for your quick response!


You're welcome, any time to posts that are not insulting.

Vou really digged me, I have to admit. I mean, I respond here!:
A)
I don't know is it that you are more intelligent

and
B)
your reaction is much more adequate

and
C)
you are from Ruhrgebiet (where I lived quite some time and I am big fan of).

Hans, unfortunately A is correct so that I don't fall for that embarrasing b and c.


Uhm, you lost me here.
I understand that you do not find your own reaction more adequate.
But your own signature says that you are from Bochum. That is in Ruhrgebiet. And I lived in the Ruhrgebiet for a long time.
Don't understand what can be fallen for or what the embarrassing part would be.

just wonder about the high number of words you use to express you don't care.

I didn't!


Well, you didn't not care enough to not still write an answer. It seems very addictive to join in to what so many of you claim to be nonsense.
Interesting again.....
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Re: Proposition to eliminate all WIKIS

Postby Thorsten » Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:26 pm

I already anticipated that neither Curt nor you have the guts to defend your nonsense in a RL talk where you can not hide away behind your keyboard


Are you really getting so desperate to try to provoke a response in such a way?
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Re: Proposition to eliminate all WIKIS

Postby Lydiot » Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:57 pm

hans05 wrote in Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:03 pm:
Thorsten wrote in Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:21 am:I already anticipated that neither Curt nor you have the guts to defend your nonsense in a RL talk where you can not hide away behind your keyboard.


What is your real-life full name and location?
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Re: Proposition to eliminate all WIKIS

Postby bugman » Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:04 pm

Hans is definitely a real person and his previously mentioned location seems legitimate. The admins/moderators, with the private information we have in the forum backend, have no doubt about Hans. FlyingHigh's behaviour on the other hand, with private VPN and temporary/burner email address, matches a distinctive behavioural attack pattern that we, the admins and moderators, have been observing for two years now.

Regards,
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Re: Proposition to eliminate all WIKIS

Postby wlbragg » Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:32 pm

Shame on me, I guess it's just another lesson learned on my part.

@FlyingHigh as sorry as I am to have to say this, I no longer feel comfortable with uploading any of your new upgrades to the Cessna 337 into FGADDON. I appreciate your original intent to contribute to the project and your interest in improving the FlightGear infrastructure. But in light of the various posts and your responses to differing opinion coupled with your questionable online visibility I no longer wish to be involved.
Well wishes!
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Re: Proposition to eliminate all WIKIS

Postby Lydiot » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:29 pm

bugman wrote in Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:04 pm:Hans is definitely a real person and his previously mentioned location seems legitimate.


Of course he's a real person, my point was just that it's silly to imply that Thorsten or Curt are dishonest or cowards because they hide behind a keyboard and that somehow this guy isn't.

This whole thread is pretty stupid I think.

I may have had my disagreements with developers here over the years but I never feel owed anything and I never think they're required to do something. If I don't like this open source software i can go somewhere else. It's free and everyone who developed for it did me a favor.

Complaining like this is just stupid.
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Re: Proposition to eliminate all WIKIS

Postby bugman » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:51 pm

That's a good point!
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Re: Proposition to eliminate all WIKIS

Postby GinGin » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:59 pm

Indeed good point Lydiot.

What would be the point to stay and spend time being unhappy or not feeling well in a community when it is supposed to be a hobby and to positively entertain ourselves ?

Another mystery :)
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Re: Proposition to eliminate all WIKIS

Postby Maerchenprinz » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:02 pm

Is this sub-topic now officially released to free speech? Because I have some serious thoughts about the relationship between ketchup and t-shirts. I'm just expressing my free thoughts, I was, and have, and never been a tomato, I'm not biased, so please listen to my opinion! It's not that I don't like tomatoes, see? If you say so, it's just because you are mustard! So I hope that your arguments will not not be biased (yes, you know who I'm talking to (wink!) , because you think I'm a tomato! They have opinions, too! So don't beat tomatoes, that's wrong!! I even like t-shirts! I Even though they don't have opinions! I even can forgive them when they try to say otherwise, like "This belly was made by beer!" That's not an opinion, that's a statement! Dirty t-shirts... I think I have made my points clear, so live with it... Ketchup is like tomatoes, sorry for the truth, eat it. I don't want to be involved in stupid discussions, so I will seize wasting my time pointing you to the obvious. That's not what discussions are made for, especially when I'm in the right position! See? You know, everyone knows, ketchup was invented for french fries only, see? French! These French again!! Don't get me wrong, I even like the French, because they have opinions, too! Other than these belgians! ( deliberately written LOWERCASE!).
Can we please close this topic? It should be clear to everyone that t-shirt is tomatoes and we all hate belgians.

Ciao,

Adrian
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Re: Proposition to eliminate all WIKIS

Postby hans05 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:30 am

Well, probably this topic should be closed.

You don't mind me giving my last summary on this one:

* Someone stated that FG documentation could need improvement.
* Almost everybody agreed.
* I said that I believe it can be fixed.
* Thorsten asked me how and I gave some hints.
* Hell brakes lose and I get insulted heavily.
* I offer to clarify this with RL talk.

The last few posts: Big blabla that confirms that quite a some people here have a big mouth when writing. But when it is about standing up in courage and face a real person in a real talk you ALL chicken out. Me not like, but that is just me.

@Adrian:
Very nice text again! I wonder how you obtained so much information about me. In FGUK flight nights my nick name is ketchup (since I am always slow and have to catch up) and I am married to a French. Good job!! Except that I believe Belgian people are as nice as any other nation's people.
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Re: Proposition to eliminate all WIKIS

Postby Thorsten » Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:17 pm

* I said that I believe it can be fixed.
* Thorsten asked me how and I gave some hints.


Yeah, there's a problem with the hinted solution that it just requires the right attitude.

If only everyone would change to the 'right attitude' (which is of course Hans' attitude - or wait - it's mine - no, it's Curt's...) and then we'd all get along happily and the FG project would be in such great shape because we'd all be committed to the same thing and would never argue any more.

The tried and tested problem with this kind of utopia is - how does one adjust the attitude of others? Re-education camps? Beating people (Hans seems to like that one, at least in symbolic form)?

That kind of thing (apart from fundamentally morally wrong) doesn't even work if you have the whole power of a freshly installed revolutionary government available - there's always these pesky dissidents, and putting them into camps makes even more people angry. An utopia created by means of attitude adjustments never ever worked in the history of mankind.

So I guess we'll just all have to live with the fact that different contributors have different attitudes. As long as they try to be constructive in their own way, that's generally fine by me. Only if the balance is heavily on the side of no contribution and only complaints about the wrong attitude and lack of service from others - then it gets a problem.

The last few posts: Big blabla that confirms that quite a some people here have a big mouth when writing. But when it is about standing up in courage and face a real person in a real talk you ALL chicken out.


*yawn*

I'm too old for a game of chicken, sorry. Hans can go tell everyone how much more courageous he is because I'm so afraid to skype with him for all I care. If he doesn't eventually find the whole thing too laughable.... :mrgreen:
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Re: Proposition to eliminate all WIKIS

Postby Hooray » Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:40 pm

Playing devil's advocate here, but actually such discussions/proposals are in fact often put up for review using the wiki - there are a number of such "RFC/RFD" articles, some of which initiated by core developers. Such articles would ideally present the topic at hand in a plausible fashion:
  • Status
  • Background
  • Problem
  • References

Wiki issues are actually commonly dealt with using just the wiki, not the forum or the devel list - there is a dedicated area for that, and it's much more likely to reach the few people involved in regularly help with wiki matters.

That being said, if you insist on "talking" to folks, my understanding is that there is some sort of semi-regular "google hangout" where some of the key folks meet once a month to discuss certain issues.

In this context however, I am not sure that the hangout is such a good idea - even if you could talk to Curt, Torsten et al - they're not primarily involved in wiki matters, and some core developers are in fact rather opposed to the wiki, pretty much for the same reasons that you cited.

But again, there is no reason why discussing the state/future of the wiki could not happen on the wiki.

Speaking in general, people involved in wiki matters are more likely to listen to other involved in wiki matters, i.e. those with an actual track record of contributing to the wiki, e.g. people like Gijs, Johan G, bugman to name a few prominent examples.

I do think that the wiki could be greatly improved, but I don't think that this is a black/white issue, where improving=deleting the whole wiki. The structure/nature of the wiki makes it rather straightforward to move articles to less prominent sections and only keep important ones linked to via the portal pages, or even create new portals.

Again, in general, improvements are always appreciated, but they must be presented as alternatives and options, otherwise whoever is pushing for certain changes is inevitably offering to deal with all regressions.
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Re: Proposition to eliminate all WIKIS

Postby V12 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:40 am

Lydiot wrote in Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:29 pm:This whole thread is pretty stupid I think.


100% fact.
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Re: Proposition to eliminate all WIKIS

Postby portreekid » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:36 pm

V12 wrote in Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:40 am:
Lydiot wrote in Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:29 pm:This whole thread is pretty stupid I think.


100% fact.


Not really. For me 100% entertainment. It is bit like Groundhog day. You just have these seagull guys.

SCNR
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Re: Proposition to eliminate all WIKIS

Postby Lydiot » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:30 pm

hans05 wrote in Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:30 am:You don't mind me giving my last summary on this one:

* Someone stated that FG documentation could need improvement.


Thread title: "Proposition to eliminate all WIKIS"

There's a reason people respond the way they do when you express yourself that way. "could need improvement" and "eliminate" aren't really compatible.
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