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Installing FlightGear, scenery, aircraft etc. on Windows.

Re: Flightgear 2018.2.2 Won't Start

Postby wmc » Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:25 am

wkitty42 wrote in Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:51 pm:ok... i'll get to that in a bit... it is good to hear that we were able to get you to the empty world... now we'll start working on reenabling things and seeing where it breaks... i'll be back ;)


Just for grins, I changed back to C-172 and was able to "fly" - at least to autostart the engine and see the horizon light/dark blue areas and sun move around in response to control inputs.

Then I tried with the --disable splash-screen line removed and I hit the hang again. Went back to UFO and still hung. So it appears at least one culprit is splash-screen display module.

BTW, in case I want to play around some more, is there a way to "comment out" a command line instead of removing it?

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Re: Flightgear 2018.2.2 Won't Start

Postby wkitty42 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:24 am

in the additional settings box you can comment out a line by prefixing it with "#"...
eg:
Code: Select all
#--disable-splash-screen


this is a rather exciting find you've made... i would probably ""panic"" and try reversing your trial by commenting out all the other options except --disable-splash-screen... then see if FG can get loaded with everything except that and see if you can see scenery and work the instruments... if it fails, of course revert those changes...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Flightgear 2018.2.2 Won't Start

Postby wmc » Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:26 pm

First test, I commented out all the commands in the "disable block" except the "--disable-splash-screen" down to the "--fog-fastest. I got to autostart, heard engine noises, and the noise of wingtips hitting tarmac as I manipulated controls, saw the light/dark blue separation tilt, the sun go by at one point, but no scenery.

Second test, I additionally commented out all the commands in the "--prop:" properties block. I got scenery, ATC command (I think - a female voice I didn't really understand - volume on my speakers not turned up much), and the cabin temp and runway messages on the screen. When I tried to click the autostart menu item the screen "greyed out" and FG hung. Log and window snip will be sent by email.

Progress anyway. I have some other work I need to do today away from the computer, but when I get time I might experiment with re-enabling some of the --prop lines in small batches to see If I can fly with some scenery.
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Re: Flightgear 2018.2.2 Won't Start

Postby wkitty42 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:11 pm

ok... i think one of our first and main clues is that you hang when the splash-screen is enabled... disabling it allows you to load up...

as for the drawing stuff, the draw-mask ones determine if we're going to draw those items... there's only four of them... they do not have anything to do with the menus and dialogs but that's also another clue...

i have posted to the dev mailing list and gotten a few responses but nothing yet with more information and things to test...

i still have a feeling that i've forgotten/missed a setting, though... there is/was something i keep thinking had to be used with AMD cards and a few others but i cannot find it in any of the various options listings :(
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Flightgear 2018.2.2 Won't Start

Postby wmc » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:08 am

For some reason, some of my "Quick Reply" posts don't show up. Probably "cockpit error" on my part...

Anyway, I've been able to successfully (well, with crashing) "fly" with at least night time scenery (some airport runway and taxiway lighting for horizon) both the UFO and C-172 with sound, starting off with ATIS. But FG seems unable, in this mode, to respond either to num pad or ThrustMaster T.1600M controls for yaw or roll. After start and advancing the throttle, it yaws left off the runway to a taxiway. If I lift off, it then begins a "death roll" to the left and crashes in an inverted position. The console output continues even after "death" until I terminate FG.

The launcher "Settings->Additional Setting" additional comand-line arguments look like:

--log-level=debug
--ignore-autosave

#--disable-ai-models
#--disable-ai-traffic
#--disable-clouds
#--disable-clouds3d
#--disable-distance-attenuation
#--disable-horizon-effect
#--disable-random-buildings
#--disable-random-objects
#--disable-random-vegetation
#--disable-real-weather-fetch
#--disable-rembrandt
#--disable-sound
#--disable-specular-highlight
--disable-splash-screen
#--disable-terrasync

--fog-fastest
--visibility=5000

#--prop:/sim/ai/enabled=0
#--prop:/sim/rendering/draw-mask/clouds=false
--prop:/sim/rendering/draw-mask/aircraft=false
#--prop:/sim/rendering/draw-mask/models=false
#--prop:/sim/rendering/draw-mask/terrain=false
#--prop:/sim/rendering/multi-sample-buffers=1
--prop:/sim/rendering/multi-samples=2
--prop:/sim/rendering/particles=0
--prop:/sim/rendering/quality-level=0
--prop:/sim/rendering/random-buildings=0
--prop:/sim/rendering/random-vegetation=0
--prop:/sim/rendering/shaders/quality-level=0
--prop:/sim/rendering/shaders/skydome=false
--prop:/sim/rendering/texture-compression=off

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Re: Flightgear 2018.2.2 Won't Start

Postby Thorsten » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:53 am

After start and advancing the throttle, it yaws left off the runway to a taxiway. If I lift off, it then begins a "death roll" to the left and crashes in an inverted position. The console output continues even after "death" until I terminate FG.


Yeah, that happens when you try to fly a single-prop plane with poor control (best forget the idea to use the keypad right now...) - the stick probably ain't configured or recognized yet.

But you seem to have working software.
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Re: Flightgear 2018.2.2 Won't Start

Postby wkitty42 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:44 am

wmc wrote in Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:08 am:For some reason, some of my "Quick Reply" posts don't show up. Probably "cockpit error" on my part...

you have to make sure yu hit the [Submit] button... if you hit the [Full Editor] button, you get the editor and then you have to make sure to hit that one's [Submit] button... i've mistakenly hit the [Save Draft] and [Preview] buttons... there's also a waiting period enforced between posts so if you post a message and then in a minute or two you try to post another one, you'll get a red warning and may miss it... i've lost messages that way because i didn't see the warning and just went back to reading and writing...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Flightgear 2018.2.2 Won't Start

Postby wkitty42 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:59 am

wmc wrote in Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:08 am:Anyway, I've been able to successfully (well, with crashing) "fly" with at least night time scenery (some airport runway and taxiway lighting for horizon) both the UFO and C-172 with sound, starting off with ATIS.

you should be spawning in at PHNL in Hawaii...

wmc wrote in Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:08 am:But FG seems unable, in this mode, to respond either to num pad or ThrustMaster T.1600M controls for yaw or roll.

i'm not aware of any of our testing settings disabling either control device... i have a T.16000M also...

wmc wrote in Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:08 am:After start and advancing the throttle, it yaws left off the runway to a taxiway. If I lift off, it then begins a "death roll" to the left and crashes in an inverted position.

yeah, this is because of the engine torque which is fairly accurately modeled... if the engine spun the other way, it would be going off right instead of left... this is know as p-factor, IIRC... it also happens on dual-prop craft unless they have counter-rotating engines to balance it out...

so yeah, on the ground, you have to apply some right rudder and when you lift off, some aileron to counter this force... there is some trim settings that can help to counter it so you don't have to manually fight it all the time...

wmc wrote in Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:08 am:The console output continues even after "death" until I terminate FG.

yup... however, in the c172p, you can hit F10 to bring up the menu... then on the far right, is a menu specifically for the c172p... lottsa options in there... even repairing the craft after a crash so you might not have to quit the simulator and restart it... F10 toggles that menu bar on and off...

wmc wrote in Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:08 am:The launcher "Settings->Additional Setting" additional comand-line arguments look like:

those look fine and you can comment out the following... commenting out the 3rd one will allow you to actually see your craft from inside as well as from outside when you use the 'V/v' keys to step through the various view-points...

--fog-fastest
--visibility=5000
--prop:/sim/rendering/draw-mask/aircraft=false

when you're feeling a little braver, comment out the next one and see if ALS works on your card... don't forget to double check that ALS is enabled in the launcher...

--prop:/sim/rendering/shaders/skydome=false
Last edited by wkitty42 on Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Callsign: wk42
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Re: Flightgear 2018.2.2 Won't Start

Postby dutchman » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:00 pm

Just a quick reminder concerning Quadro cards, we've had these kind of problems multiple times.
Hope this helps viewtopic.php?f=11&t=33993&p=329879&hilit=Nvidia+Quadro#p329879

/dutchman
A propeller is just a big fan in front of the plane used to keep the pilot cool.
When it stops, you can watch him start sweating.
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Re: Flightgear 2018.2.2 Won't Start  

Postby wkitty42 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:19 pm

@dutchman: excellent reminder! good link that leads to a couple of other related topics about the Quadro cards... i keep forgetting about the special video settings files that erik points out in the "FG Freezes" topic... https://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?p=329047#p329047

if i'm reading it correctly, wmc should be able to copy "Quadro K2100M.xml" to "Quadro M4000.xml" and see if it works without any of our minimal profile settings in place...

if i'm looking at the logs correctly to get the paths, that would be something like this (really long command line)...

Code: Select all
copy "C:/Program Files/FlightGear 2018.2.3/data/Video/NVIDIA Corporation/Quadro K2100M.xml" "C:/Program Files/FlightGear 2018.2.3/data/Video/NVIDIA Corporation/Quadro M4000.xml"


NOTE: i'm saying to use "Quadro M4000.xml" because the logs identify the card as "Quadro M4000/PCIe/SSE2" and i'm making an eWAG ;)
it may be that "Quadro K4000M.xml" is the proper file name to use but i don't know... i would try the above, first..


EDIT: i forgot to add that the setting being forced in the video card specific files is one that we have in our minimal profile, too... if/when we get the card file properly recognized, we can then remove that setting from our minimal profile and it should still be forced from the video card file... which ever file names ends up being the proper one, we can add that to the distribution so others with the Quadro M4000 won't run into this problem...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Flightgear 2018.2.2 Won't Start

Postby wmc » Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:28 am

wkitty42 wrote in Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:59 am:
wmc wrote in Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:08 am:The launcher "Settings->Additional Setting" additional comand-line arguments look like:

those look fine and you can comment out the following... commenting out the 3rd one will allow you to actually see your craft from inside as well as from outside when you use the 'V/v' keys to step through the various view-points...

--fog-fastest
--visibility=5000
--prop:/sim/rendering/draw-mask/aircraft=false

when you're feeling a little braver, comment out the next one and see if ALS works on your card... don't forget to double check that ALS is enabled in the launcher...

--prop:/sim/rendering/shaders/skydome=false


With those commented out I get a nice A/C console rendering, instruments and controls respond as expected. I managed a takeoff (but apparently rotated too early and stalled at about 50 ft). Also the report of no yaw or roll control was the result of a "cockpit" error. I forgot I had stick-twist control for yaw (long time, no use Thrustmaster 1600.M) and the lack of roll probably was after a stall when there was no control authority left on any of the airfoil surfaces. Since I ran this test in daylight, I actually see scenery detail. Also, I enabled auto coordination since I don't have rudders at present.

Now that I have the ability to actually control and A/C, I'll have to dust off the v-speeds and look at the trim controls etc. so I don't crash before I clear the airport. :)

Now the "Additional Settings" command-line arguments look like:
-------------------------------------------------------------
--log-level=debug
--ignore-autosave

#--disable-ai-models
#--disable-ai-traffic
#--disable-clouds
#--disable-clouds3d
#--disable-distance-attenuation
#--disable-horizon-effect
#--disable-random-buildings
#--disable-random-objects
#--disable-random-vegetation
#--disable-real-weather-fetch
#--disable-rembrandt
#--disable-sound
#--disable-specular-highlight
--disable-splash-screen
#--disable-terrasync

#--fog-fastest
#--visibility=5000

#--prop:/sim/ai/enabled=0
#--prop:/sim/rendering/draw-mask/clouds=false
#--prop:/sim/rendering/draw-mask/aircraft=false
--prop:/sim/rendering/draw-mask/models=false
#--prop:/sim/rendering/draw-mask/terrain=false
#--prop:/sim/rendering/multi-sample-buffers=1
--prop:/sim/rendering/multi-samples=2
--prop:/sim/rendering/particles=0
--prop:/sim/rendering/quality-level=0
--prop:/sim/rendering/random-buildings=0
--prop:/sim/rendering/random-vegetation=0
--prop:/sim/rendering/shaders/quality-level=0
--prop:/sim/rendering/shaders/skydome=false
--prop:/sim/rendering/texture-compression=off
------------------------------------------------------------------

I think I'll start commenting out a few of the remaining ones a couple at a time to see how things go, but leave the splash-screen disabled as it seems to be the culprit here.

Regarding the Quadro card comments: I ran into this once before several years ago with a different Quardro, so I would not be totally surprised that it has issues. I will probably look at the ref'd .xml file and use it as a guide to create a FG unique profile for my card. (It provides the ability to set up program specific profiles, so I might as well use one.)

Anyway, progress made. And though the AOPA "Rusty Pilot" training won't get me back in the air (too expensive for a retired dude) at least FG will help me scratch the itch to get airborne. :)

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Re: Flightgear 2018.2.2 Won't Start

Postby JTailor » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:25 am

My experience with Nvidia Quadro M2000 is that you have to set the property quality-level to 0

I'll do this with creating Quadro M2000.xml special configuration files in <fgdata>/Video/NVIDIA

<!--
Nvidia Quadro M2000.
-->

<PropertyList>

<shaders>
<quality-level type="float">0</quality-level>
<shaders>

</PropertyList>

see also underneath topic
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=33896&p=329047&hilit=video+nvidia+quadro#p329047

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Re: Flightgear 2018.2.2 Won't Start

Postby wkitty42 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:44 am

wmc wrote in Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:28 am:--disable-splash-screen
--prop:/sim/rendering/quality-level=0

AFAIK, you can now remove all of those settings except the two above... the second one will be set by the "Quadro M4000.xml" file if/when you create it and put it with the others... details are in the previously linked forum posts...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Flightgear 2018.2.2 Won't Start

Postby wmc » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:17 am

wkitty42 wrote in Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:44 am:
wmc wrote in Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:28 am:--disable-splash-screen
--prop:/sim/rendering/quality-level=0

AFAIK, you can now remove all of those settings except the two above... the second one will be set by the "Quadro M4000.xml" file if/when you create it and put it with the others... details are in the previously linked forum posts...


I started disabling (commenting out) commands in the original list you gave me until I was down to only one that made the difference between fly / no fly and that was:
--prop:/sim/rendering/shaders/quality-level=0
Splash screen works OK and the "--prop:/sim/rendering/quality-level=0" seems not to be a problem with the above line enable. So it seems, at least in terms of a turn around the patch at the default airport, I can get away with just that one line for my card. I've tested it with "Default Renderer" and 2x anti-aliasing both default and full screen size.
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Re: Flightgear 2018.2.2 Won't Start

Postby wmc » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:47 pm

I moved the one remaining command into the Quadro M4000.xml file as suggested, and things seem to be O.K. Thank you, wk42 and JTailor for the help.

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