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Using Google Earth for Scenery Model Development

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Using Google Earth for Scenery Model Development

Postby martin » Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:22 pm

Liam wrote:Use google earth to get a screenshot of the area, then build over the top of that, []


By drawing off Google Earth imagery you might commit Copyright violation. Please check thoroughly,

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Re: Prof.3D Artist available for free. I want a part of this.

Postby Liam » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:12 pm

Not drawing off... measuring and scaling from.. you do not use any of the materials.... I fail to see how it is any more copyright than using Google Sketchup... sketchup has an integrated button which you click to get google earth views as an underlay to your model, so you can compare with.. you cannot integrate the shot into your model!

I have checked and Google sketchup is built for modellers.... If google didnt want modellers to use google earth to model from why the hell would they add the "import aerial snapshot" button so you can scale from...
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Re: Prof.3D Artist available for free. I want a part of this.

Postby statto » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:39 pm

Liam wrote:Not drawing off... measuring and scaling from.. you do not use any of the materials.... I fail to see how it is any more copyright than using Google Sketchup... sketchup has an integrated button which you click to get google earth views as an underlay to your model, so you can compare with.. you cannot integrate the shot into your model!

I have checked and Google sketchup is built for modellers.... If google didnt want modellers to use google earth to model from why the hell would they add the "import aerial snapshot" button so you can scale from...


You miss the point. If you use Google Earth Imagery, it may mean your models will not be suitable for submission into our database. We can't have any models with copyright problems in our database.

I'm looking into the matter and haven't found anything as of yet.
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Re: Prof.3D Artist available for free. I want a part of this.

Postby andyramone » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:42 pm

Liam wrote:Not drawing off... measuring and scaling from.. you do not use any of the materials.... I fail to see how it is any more copyright than using Google Sketchup... sketchup has an integrated button which you click to get google earth views as an underlay to your model, so you can compare with.. you cannot integrate the shot into your model!

I have checked and Google sketchup is built for modellers.... If google didnt want modellers to use google earth to model from why the hell would they add the "import aerial snapshot" button so you can scale from...


Presumably the Google Earth Import button is for people who want to model exclusively for Google Earth.
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Re: Prof.3D Artist available for free. I want a part of this.

Postby martin » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:49 pm

statto wrote:You miss the point. If you use Google Earth Imagery, it may mean your models will not be suitable for submission into our database. We can't have any models with copyright problems in our database.


Not only importing into the DB is a matter, to my (cautious) opinion, every sort of public distribution might be affected. This one is a nice read:

http://earth.google.com/intl/en-US/license.html

Personally, I'm convinced that at least one of the use restrictions applies ;-)

Cheers, Martin.
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Re: Prof.3D Artist available for free. I want a part of this.

Postby Liam » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:54 pm

But surely if its just to be able to space out my objects and drop them in one drop to prevent lag... with none of their material on them it should be absolutely fine? I dont see how any dude is gunna send me an email saying "Hey, i believe you have spaced out and made sure your models are correct scale using google sketchups button which they put there themselves... please do not place those models in flightgear- even though it bears no resemblence to google earth apart from the basic shape of the world!.........." It would make more sence for me to sue google and say they measured the proportions of my house! ..Rediculous...

Image
That underlay is not part of the final Marina model..... I merely just clicked import google earth snapshot! is it still illegal?


Ok then the mediteranien sea will just have some awesome airports for my own collection! :D fine by me... Ibiza is awesome for me :D
Last edited by Liam on Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Prof.3D Artist available for free. I want a part of this.

Postby statto » Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:01 pm

statto wrote:
Liam wrote:Not drawing off... measuring and scaling from.. you do not use any of the materials.... I fail to see how it is any more copyright than using Google Sketchup... sketchup has an integrated button which you click to get google earth views as an underlay to your model, so you can compare with.. you cannot integrate the shot into your model!

I have checked and Google sketchup is built for modellers.... If google didnt want modellers to use google earth to model from why the hell would they add the "import aerial snapshot" button so you can scale from...


You miss the point. If you use Google Earth Imagery, it may mean your models will not be suitable for submission into our database. We can't have any models with copyright problems in our database.

I'm looking into the matter and haven't found anything as of yet.


After doing some reading, my opinion is that Google Earth is a good tool - I've used it frequently when modelling for FlightGear for doing measurements and finding coordinates - but you don't want to mess around with anything directly related to using their imagery when modelling for FlightGear. It could mean that your model will be removed from our database.
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Re: Prof.3D Artist available for free. I want a part of this.

Postby Liam » Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:04 pm

Your right its an amazing tool! how else am I going to see exactly and find the exact measurements of a Marina.... Measure it myself? erm restricted access 400 miles away... have you ever tried googleing "Palma marina measurements"? well I think I made my point hehe. 8)

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Re: Prof.3D Artist available for free. I want a part of this.

Postby andyramone » Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:06 pm

Liam wrote:But surely if its just to be able to space out my objects and drop them in one drop to prevent lag


It has already been pointed out to you that this is not the case. It increases the lag

Ok then the mediteranien sea will just have some awesome airports for my own collection! :D fine by me... Ibiza is awesome for me :D


Not the best attitude to have on a collaborative project. The people here are just trying to help so we can all enjoy your work. That is, after all, the whole point of the scenery development for Flightgear.
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Re: Prof.3D Artist available for free. I want a part of this.

Postby Liam » Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:12 pm

Ok then the mediteranien sea will just have some awesome airports for my own collection! :D fine by me... Ibiza is awesome for me :D

Not the best attitude to have on a collaborative project. The people here are just trying to help so we can all enjoy your work. That is, after all, the whole point of the scenery development for Flightgear.


Im not trying to be an ass here,In fact im trying to be polite into asking what you mean- Im sick of being complained at for my work- so why bother. Im 17 years old, at college, I suffer from depression from multiple other issues which I will not discuss over this forum board, I have alot to do in my spare time and this is one thing I like to do by myself without my friends. I dont mind someone giving me a polite comment telling me how I should do it.. but I do mind someone telling me that what I have done is totally wrong and cannot be implemented for everyone without giving me a tip on how to change it... I mean... what do you want me to do?... Go back to the model in sketchup and remove the underlay which isnt even there anymore? its fine how it is. so if I cannot change it any longer to meet your rediculous requirements and I cant publish it to you then I cant so I wont. Im a nice guy, very down to earth, keane to learn and participate, so dont complain and state what you want me to do clearly :) All im asking :)

Thank you.
Last edited by Liam on Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Prof.3D Artist available for free. I want a part of this.

Postby harrypig » Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:21 pm

I don't see how using google's satellite images to make correctly proportioned models is in any way a violation of copyright. As long as the image is removed before submission to FG it's fine. This is like saying if I at one point I put a sketchup texture on my model as a placeholder while a found a GPL texture, then completely replaced the sketchup texture with the GPL one, it would violate copyright. That's ridiculous.

Another example, we all use satellite image overlays when we draw airports in TaxiDraw. Does this mean all airports made in this fashion are copyright violations?? Please Liam is doing good work, while it is important to be careful of license issues, I can't possibly see how this is one of them.
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Re: Prof.3D Artist available for free. I want a part of this.

Postby martin » Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:49 pm

Liam,

Liam wrote:but I do mind someone telling me that what I have done is totally wrong and cannot be implemented for everyone without giving me a tip on how to change it...


This is _not_ about us telling you what you have done "is totally wrong". I've simply pointing you at the risk of Copyright violation. And I've given a pointer where to read about it.
It's not me neither anyone else in this crowd who's been writing Google's terms of use. This is Google themselves and by using their services you automagically !! acknowledge these terms. I suspect you even have signed into an account at Google, thus you have, by definition, _excplicitly_ acknowledged these terms.

The links given at the "Google Earth License" page lead us to a collection of different pages, including this one, called "Google Maps/Google Earth Terms and Conditions":

http://www.google.com/intl/en_ALL/help/terms_maps.html

2. Restrictions on Use. Unless you have received prior written authorization from Google (or, as applicable, from the provider of particular Content), you must not:
[...]
(b) copy, translate, modify, or make derivative works of the Content or any part thereof;


_This_ is what we're talking about and none of us has the power to change it.

Cheers, Martin.
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Re: Prof.3D Artist available for free. I want a part of this.

Postby Liam » Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:25 pm

I didnt say you did have the power to change googles rules and TOS, I believe what you were saying Is that I have broken them... now have I or havent I?
(by the way that rules and regulations link doesnt make any sence... I speak fluently english and french & german only.. not USA I-sue-you-and-you-sue-me talk...)
please.. make what you are saying clear so I can get on and be creative! :roll:
Last edited by Liam on Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Prof.3D Artist available for free. I want a part of this.

Postby statto » Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:06 pm

Liam wrote:I didnt say you did have the power to change googles rules and TOS, I believe what you were saying Is that I have broken them... now have I or havent I? please.. make what you are saying clear so I can get on and be creative! :roll:


I don't think you have if you're digitizing for yourself because it might fall under fair use, but we can't put them in the scenery model database.
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Re: Prof.3D Artist available for free. I want a part of this.

Postby Liam » Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:00 pm

Ok thanks!, What can I change so that I can share them in the database? the models have nothing of googles attatched to them... :P Or am I able to just publish them on my site and unitedfreeworld because I am more than willing to do so... Dont want them going to waste!

I just read this:
2. Restrictions on Use. Unless you have received prior written authorization from Google (or, as applicable, from the provider of particular Content), you must not:
(c) redistribute, sublicense, rent, publish, sell, assign, lease, market, transfer, or otherwise make the Products or Content available to third parties;

By content do they mean the models we build using it....? because I am not asking to publish anything that they created... im asking if I can publish anything that I have created entirely myself using their technology (including google sketchup and google maps)- not one part of either of those is going to be published in a piece of scenery.
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