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No multiplayer switching to new internet service provider

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No multiplayer switching to new internet service provider

Postby JazzTp » Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:23 pm

Hi,


I'm switching to an overall much better another internet service provider, optical fiber cable / coax, instead of ADSL, and the will to actually provide the promised bandwidth.

I have both services available at the moment.

Anything I tested so far with the new service works great, except FlightGear: I don't have multiplayer, I don't see any other pilots in the pilots list and my aircraft doesn't appear in the map server http://mpmap02.flightgear.org/

The support personnel of the new service seem to be very willing to solve any kind of problem, we switched their modem to bridge mode, no ports filtering at all => "public" IP served to the WAN side of my router.

(
    This is what happens in Windows 8.1 as well as in Arch Linux and Ubuntu:

    If I unplug from my wifi router the ethernet cable coming from the "optical fiber / coax" modem and plug the ethernet cable coming from the ADSL modem, multiplayer works fine, so my router config should be ok. Just to be sure I've also tried connecting the "optical fiber / coax" modem directly to the PC ethernet port: no multiplayer.
)

I've searched the FG wiki but pages dealing with protocols are far too complex to use them to submit a precise requirement to the new internet service provider.


Could anybody please give me a clue about what I should ask them to enable?

P.S.: I have FlightGear 3.2.0 on Windows 8.1, FlghtGear 3.0.0-1 on Arch Linux, and FlightGear 3.1 some nightly build in Ubuntu (actually, this one at the moment goes to segmentation fault immediately after startup, I haven't been using it for a while, anyway I see myself popping up on http://mpmap02.flightgear.org/ before that happens, fixing it is not priority right now).
Last edited by JazzTp on Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No multiplayer switching to new internet service provide

Postby JazzTp » Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:59 am

P.P.S.: Terrasync (built-in) and the echo test of FGCom and watching other pilots on http://mpmap02.flightgear.org/ are working fine with both providers.

Maybe I could look for some piece of software capable of logging ongoing traffic, connect FG in multiplayer through the ADSL connection and send the log to the other internet service provider. I'm going to try with NetworkMiner packet analyzer http://sourceforge.net/projects/networkminer/?source=directory but anybody already having an idea of what's going on and what I should tell the new provider is welcome to share it, thank you.
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Re: No multiplayer switching to new internet service provide

Postby JazzTp » Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:13 pm

I used NetworkMiner packet analyzer http://sourceforge.net/projects/networkminer/?source=directory and made short sessions with FG 3.2.0 on mpserver01.flightgear.org through the ADSL and the optical fiber / coax modem.

Well, apparently packets are being exchanged FG <=> mpserver with both internet service providers.
EDIT: see next post about this.

I'm going to call this new provider and see if they can tell me anything about something that might be going on, packet headers changed or I don't know what, I'm not such a networking guru.

On the other hand, a word from somebody with deep knowledge of the FlightGear mpservers protocols might really help, anybody out there?



(
    This packet analyzer tool is quite interesting, it even caught that a file was being received from weather.noaa.gov, I was on LIRJ (with the AD-4 plane) not to bother anybody while still having planes close enough to eventually see them in the pilots list.
    Code: Select all
    2014/12/02 14:30
    LFKB 021430Z 04003KT 360V090 9999 FEW025 SCT260 17/11 Q1001 NOSIG

)
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Re: No multiplayer switching to new internet service provide

Postby JazzTp » Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:06 pm

EDIT to the previous post:
after taking screen snapshots with NetworkMiner showing packets exchanges in both directions, sent and received, I started having all sessions with "Sent: 0 packets", like this one on mpserver01.flightgear.org (serv01.endevour.de):
Code: Select all
IP: 217.78.131.44
MAC: Unknown
Hostname:
OS: Unknown
TTL: Unknown
Open TCP Ports:
Sent: 0 packets (0 Bytes), 0.00 % cleartext (0 of 0 Bytes)
Received: 1734 packets (1,199,928 Bytes), 0.00 % cleartext (0 of 0 Bytes)
    192.168.1.101 [QUADW81D] (Windows) -> 217.78.131.44 : 1734 packets (1,199,928 Bytes), 0.00 % cleartext (0 of 0 Bytes)
    UDP: 6000 -> 5000 : 1734 packets (1,199,928 Bytes), 0.00 % cleartext (0 of 0 Bytes)


I phoned the new ISP support (more than once actually, they tell me "try this" and we agree that I'd try and call again).

One of them had the idea of turning on the wifi part of their modem again (I preferred my router wifi as I can set the radio to minimum power and it's easier to switch off-on).

This makes ping possible...

    Yes, bad enough: I had forgotten to mention I couldn't ping through the new provider optical fiber /coax connection... anyway through the old provider ADSL connection, even with firewall on and ping not possible, FlightGear works fine in multiplayer connection. No problem pinging now through the new provider connection as well as through the old provider ADSL connection, provided (*), with both, that I turn the Windows firewall off (I had tried a bunch of commands I got from the web to activate ICMP through this firewall with no success).

    Yes, wifi ON or OFF has nothing to do with pinging over the ethernet connection of their modem, it looks like a bug in the modem firmware.

Otherwise, nothing else changed when connected with the new provider:
I have nobody in the pilots list, I see other aircrafts on http://mpmap02.flightgear.org/ but not mine, NetworkMiner says "Sent 0 packets".


(*) Warning to anybody trying similar maneuvers: this NetworkMiner tool also shows me that whenever I lower the firewall, there's some exchange of files... mainly .cer files, certificates, I immediately unlinked Dropbox, and changed password through their web interface, I don't think I have any other piece of data potentially constituting an access key to anything "sensible", I never store passwords and I don't do homebanking on this machine, but anybody tweackling like this is warned.


EDIT: apparently a few packets are now passing through, but nothing changes (plugging the ADSL connection I have MP ok, otherwise: nobody in pilot list and my aircraft doesn't show up in the mpmap02 server. With both connections: FG echo test works fine, built-in terrasync works fine). This is a short session with mpserver02.flightgear.org through the optical fiber / coax connection giving me this problem:
Code: Select all
IP: 64.69.45.88
MAC: Unknown
Hostname: mpserver02.flightgear.org
OS: Unknown
TTL: 51 (distance: 13)
Open TCP Ports:
Sent: 59 packets (51,184 Bytes), 0.00 % cleartext (0 of 0 Bytes)
    64.69.45.88 [mpserver02.flightgear.org] -> 192.168.1.101 (Windows) : 59 packets (51,184 Bytes), 0.00 % cleartext (0 of 0 Bytes)
        UDP: 5000 -> 6000 : 59 packets (51,184 Bytes), 0.00 % cleartext (0 of 0 Bytes)
Received: 173 packets (169,196 Bytes), 0.00 % cleartext (0 of 0 Bytes)
    192.168.1.101 (Windows) -> 64.69.45.88 [mpserver02.flightgear.org] : 196 packets (191,552 Bytes), 0.00 % cleartext (0 of 0 Bytes)
        UDP: 6000 -> 5000 : 196 packets (191,552 Bytes), 0.00 % cleartext (0 of 0 Bytes)
Incoming sessions: 0
Outgoing sessions: 0



Well, I'm currently living in Argentina, I'd really like to sort this out because for work purposes I need the greater bandwidth and stability of the optical fiber connection (Fibertel Argentina) over the ADSL one with tendence to spare gateway bandwidth (Speedy/Telefónica Argentina), but I'd really like to maintain the possibility to fly in MP, I have the honor to have given some contribution (tests and a few ideas for features) to Icetail, aka Nikolai, the brilliant developer of my favorite aircraft, the JA37 Viggen, and part of it requires meeting another JA37 and other aircrafts in MP.

Please, is anybody successfully connecting in MultiPlayer through Fibertel Argentina?

EDIT: one openminded guy of Fibertel tech support called the next support level in, I received a call in less than one hour, the person updated this modem firmware remotely, yet he recognized it's still behaving strangely, so they're coming in two days bringing one or more simpler modems to test (I don't need their modem to have wifi radio). For anybody possibly having or going to have a similar issue: the modem is Motorola SBG901.

It calls my attention, however, that anything else is working fine now, the built-in Terrasync and FGCom work fine as before, Skype, Hangouts, even Jamulus which needs to ping servers, even with the Windows 8.1 firewall on ("general failure" is the normal result of pinging through this firewall even running cmd as admin). The only thing which isn't working is the MultiPlayer connection in FlightGear, even now that I can ping mpservers and get their reply. MultiPlayer is ok just plugging into the ADSL connection.... :?:
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Re: No multiplayer switching to new internet service provide

Postby JazzTp » Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:11 pm

I have a simpler cable modem with no wifi, bridge mode, public IP.
I can ping.
I see "Multiplayer mode active!" but same symptoms.

Still making tests checking to be sure that the involved TCP ports have green light (in bridge mode that should be granted, but you never know).


(
    Just for local virtual pilots wanting to know how it's going in order to choose / spare time:

    In the meantime, I met the neighbour who had suggested Fibertel to me, he told me the Fibertel connection had started to give him problems, they blamed the modem(s) yet they were unable to fix it... finally he cut with them and went back with another provider who now does offer optical fiber connection, better and cheaper he says... coup de théâtre, Speedy themselves. Well...

    (Actually there are a few other details about this new relationship, a strange call announcing "an inspection" on Thursday, I said "not possible, you are scheduled on Friday, please just come on Friday", I called back twice and absolutely nobody knew nothing about it, not even the two technicians who came on Friday, very nice guys as anybody else so far, apart that one call. I had to insist that they revised the whole path of the cable and wrote down, no manipulations had been made, just in case -as the neighbour suggested- Fibertel administration people might be fearing that customers might want to "share" the connections and the fees with their neighbours. Not my case. Also, the two technicians as well as the neighbour warned me about the possibility that burglars assume false identity to gain access to my house. I don't think so, the same neighbour confirmed that on Thursday morning a Fibertel car came to my door while I was not in.)
)
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Re: No multiplayer switching to new internet service provide

Postby Necolatis » Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:51 pm

> If I unplug from my wifi router the ethernet cable coming from the "optical fiber / coax" modem and plug the ethernet cable coming from the ADSL modem

Do not know how it works in Linux, but in windows if you plug in another device, I think you will switch to another network. In windows there are public and home, each has different firewall setups. Is there a chance your firewall is set to allow FG access only in one network mode, like Home but not in Public? A long shot I know, but else do not know what it can be.
"Airplane travel is nature's way of making you look like your passport photo."
— Al Gore


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Re: No multiplayer switching to new internet service provide

Postby JazzTp » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:38 pm

Thanks a lot for the hint, actually in the Windows firewall I gave to FlightGear (and all related executables) full inbound/outbound authorization on all ports on any kind of network, private/public/domain, and also set the "allow edge trasversal" option.

I also made tests after switching off the firewall. After reading your reply, I checked again to be sure that those settings are still there and made a few other tests with the firewall on and off.

I used eMule online test to test the same ports (with UPnP off), apparently they are open.

The problem seems to be WAN related, no idea how Fibertel might differ from Speedy. I wish some kind of tunnelling was possible to the mpservers (pinging to them is OK now), like ssh, and somebody on the other side could tell me "I read you but..." or "nothing at all here".

Again thank you a lot!
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Re: No multiplayer switching to new internet service provide

Postby JazzTp » Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:25 am

I've been learning about ssh tunnelling and trying from both Windows (with PutTTY) and Linux (with openssh).
Maybe I got to a correct setup but a password is always required by mpservers (EDIT: OR a key).

(Maybe I could get out of the Fibertel network through tunnelling to some other "public" ssh server willing to do port forwarding between my pc and one mpserver, but I'm not aware of any such server. Besides, that would add latency.)

As I said, anything else I tested so far is working fine, Hangouts, Skype, Jamulus, Mumble, web browsing, watching videos from Youtube, FGCom, Terrasync... everything is ok except the multiplayer connection of FlightGear (although I do read in the console "Multiplayer mode active!").

I can't figure out what makes the difference.
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Re: No multiplayer switching to new internet service provide

Postby JazzTp » Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:05 pm

I've found that some multiplayer games are based on servers accessible through ssh, with publicly available password, I wish that was the case of FlightGear mpservers too, or at least some of them.
http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Public_server
http://www.adom.de/forums/showthread.ph ... essible%29

(
    For local virtual pilots [traducción al castellano disponible a pedido... o pueden usar algún plugin basado en Google Translator que normalmente no estropea demasiado el texto]):

    Overall Fibertel doesn't seem to offer much lower gateway bandwidth than promised as Speedy ADSL was doing more than once, but the "inspection" thing threw some light... they could very well be restricting something that they fear could allow various users to share one connection... I believe this modem itself made "imprinting" on the PC ethernet port they insisted to first test it with, after that it didn't give any IP at all to this router, the technicians didn't seem to know exactly why but one of them was suspecting something I believe because after trying for a while he told me "these modems carry some restrictions...". Anyway that was solved as soon as I activated the MAC clone feature of the router, no need to use the second ethernet port on the PC and have the PC ON any time I need to connect my phone, which is always when not sleeping.

    For learning purposes, I'll see if I can access some unix account out of the Fibertel WAN and "bounce" on it, I might try with a machine on this ADSL Speedy connection first...

    But overall I think I should by now remember priorities [I have wildly ignored work/survival priorities these days] and check out Speedy optical fiber cable service conditions, and eventually plan to migrate to it although I'm not exactly a fan.

    One point: the hole in the wall through which Telefonica-Speedy pair and Fibertel coax are coming into the house is not big enough for one more coax cable and I'm not going to make it larger, which means that in the ending one provider stays and not the other one.
)

EDIT: maybe some Fibertel server is blacklisted? mpservers might very well take into account the list of servers used by spammers and ignore them.

Maybe somebody spammed through a Fibertel connection, or relying on a Fibertel server where that feature was left open... (14 years ago I set up a friend's first e-commerce on a Linux box, and one day we noticed the box generated a lot of traffic and we received a very polite message explaining that traditionally it was nice to leave the mail forwarding feature publicly available but alas it was now being used by spammers and it was adviseable to close it, which I did immediately, and in the meantime that server would unfortunately have to be listed on a black list...).

Well... in this case, servers involved in all the other well working stuff I mentioned totally ignore the black list... terrasync, fgcom... hangouts, skype, mumble, jamulus, youtube downstream/upload... it's just FlightGear mpservers... not very likely the point.
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Re: No multiplayer switching to new internet service provide

Postby JazzTp » Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:23 pm

(Maybe I could get out of the Fibertel network through tunnelling to some other "public" ssh server willing to do port forwarding between my pc and one mpserver, but I'm not aware of any such server. Besides, that would add latency.)


Well at least this Fibertel problem made me learn/discover nice stuff.

Maybe I could use a Shell account, like http://sdf.org/ (just one time $36 donation gives lifetime ARPA membership with access to ssh and other stuff... don't know about bandwidth limits or CPU power, reaction time seems a bit high when I type in commands but pinging to my PC IP from there gives pretty low delay measurements) or one of these http://wiki.flightgear.org/Free_Shell_Providers... not "insomnia" unless I have other reasons too, I just read their FAQ :D ... Actually, I do have ideas about nice uses of such an account, including SQL dbase for statistic data recollection on some deseases... I just don't have enough time and "brain cycles" to focus on everything, on the contrary in the last two years I had to limit/eliminate obligations requiring constant precision, maintaining stuff tidy etc.. I wish I had Dr Manhattan skills :D

Anyway... for this almost-monologue to be somewhat more useful to others too, here are some links for anybody interested in SSH tunnelling:

http://matt.might.net/articles/ssh-hacks/

http://www.revsys.com/writings/quicktips/ssh-tunnel.html

http://www.revsys.com/writings/quicktips/ssh-faster-connections.html

https://chamibuddhika.wordpress.com/2012/03/21/ssh-tunnelling-explained/

http://inside.mines.edu/fs_home/gmurray/HowTo/sshNotes.html

http://activedeveloper.info/port-forwarding-with-putty.html

https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:SSH_tunnels_from_Microsoft_Windows

EDIT: some more...

http://pentestmonkey.net/cheat-sheet/ssh-cheat-sheet

http://blog.trackets.com/2014/05/17/ssh-tunnel-local-and-remote-port-forwarding-explained-with-examples.html

http://www.debianadmin.com/howto-use-ssh-local-and-remote-port-forwarding.html
Quoting from the final Notes in this page: "Unfortunately you can only forward services running on TCP, but there's a way to forward UDP through SSH using netcat".

OK, it's still not clear enough to me... is the multiplayer interchange using UDP or TCP?
FlightGear multiplayer uses UDP according to this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_TCP_and_UDP_port_numbers
(What I found about the multiplayer protocol on the FG Wiki describes the contents of the messages not the wrapper.)

When I found this statement "Unfortunately..." I was trying to setup things to successfully connect in multpiplayer reaching one of the mpservers through my old G4 powerbook connected to Speedy, from my PC connected to Fibertel and running FlightGear (after seeing that remote login works, I switched off initializiation of a shell and was about to issue on the G4 itself the Remote port forwarding command found here http://matt.might.net/articles/ssh-hacks/). It seems as I have to search/learn how to use netcat.
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Re: No multiplayer switching to new internet service provide

Postby JazzTp » Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:19 pm

Yesterday polly contacted me by PM, he has the server software running on his second PC and we just spent the whole afternoon making tests, connected through IRC.
It turns out that moving the server away from port 5000 solves the problem.

Port 5000 is used by FlightGear but also by UPnP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_TC ... rt_numbers
The staff of Fibertel Argentina finally admitted that their network is using port 5000, "it should be open for users but might not be fully functional".
"I would had spared like 60 hours of my precious time in this critical period, had your collegues just given out that information before, when I first asked about port 5000".

I guess their setup is not unique, modems are Motorola and probably other gear come from the USA (and/or China, I don't know, I mean I bet there isn't anything peculiar in their network and how they manage it.
Some other FlightGear users around the world had issues in the past, as I found out googleing, and maybe those issues were not related to being behind a proxy but in the middle of some similarly UPnP managed network.

So, polly is going to post here https://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bugs/ a bug or feature request, proposing to move some servers away from 5000, or maybe to run a second instance on port 5507. One idea he mentioned was mpserver01 => 5001, mpserver02 => 5002 etc..

(02 is the server on which I have the shortest ping delay from Buenos Aires, BTW.)

Here goes the link to the issue: https://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bugs/issues/detail?id=1617&q=-Type%3DFeatureRequest%20-status%3ATesting&sort=-id&colspec=ID%20Type%20Status%20Priority%20Summary%20Aircraft%20Milestone

The manager of mpserver12 (I don't know if I'm authorized to name him 8)) kindly joined the tests and is now working on it, while polly and I leave our CitX on KHAF (on a temporarily parallel isolated universe we accessed through another port) and go to cook ourselves something to eat.

***THANKS A LOT TO BOTH*** without their help it would have been impossible for me at present to spot where the problem is. The thing was quite puzzling, as anything else is fine, as reported above, including other aspects of FlightGear itself, FGcom and Terrasync.
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Re: No multiplayer switching to new internet service provide

Postby Michat » Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:30 am

Oh, you won first lottery prize win the number 5000 moving to your new ASP ballot port. Fortunately FG have a good technical assistance.

Hope to see you soon on airborne.
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Re: No multiplayer switching to new internet service provide

Postby JazzTp » Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:40 pm

Michat wrote in Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:30 am:Oh, you won first lottery prize win the number 5000 moving to your new ASP ballot port. Fortunately FG have a good technical assistance.

Hope to see you soon on airborne.


Hi Michat,

I'm not that "lucky", the "coincidente" was pre-established: port 5000 is part of the UPnP protocol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_TCP_and_UDP_port_numbers

I'm glad I didn't hurry to another service (came to know that Speedy offers optical fiber cable too, including phone line => much cheaper if they don't cheat too much with the gateway bandwidth), I hope this can help other users who might be affected unknowingly, as polly said posting to the bugs list https://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bugs/issues/detail?id=1617&q=-Type%3DFeatureRequest%20-status%3ATesting&sort=-id&colspec=ID%20Type%20Status%20Priority%20Summary%20Aircraft%20Milestone

Actually, while searching, I had found a few posts on other forums by FlightGear users blaming a proxy... maybe it was this same problem actually. And I guess many more users do not take the time to report and make further investigation or they just don't speak English or are unfamiliar with forums...

YES, they did make a great technical assistance work!


OFF TOPIC:

    I'm still paying for Speedy ADSL, I hope not for too long. I wanted to have both connections for debugging purposes and of course to be able to fly, even if I'm not "up there" as often as in other periods (I went crazy horse with this Fibertel thing though, and it was just crazy because I have delayed crucial work stuff). Last night I made a tour with Icetail's latest version of the JA37 Viggen, he's making it even more awesome, just brilliant, it's a pity so few know about it, it flies beautifully, he used real wind tunnel data from various sources and implemented the FDM very diligently, I can witness because I have the honor to have helped with tests and a few suggestions for features. BTW: I think not authentic features should not preclude high systems ratings, provided they can just be switched off and authentic features are implemented.

    See you soon Michat, un abrazo.
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Re: No multiplayer switching to new internet service provide

Postby JazzTp » Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:47 pm

I'm copying from a PM I sent to Paul, who is very kindly caring about this issue:

Points of view:

    1. Fibertel setup certainly deserves that I close with them and that "Fibertel Argentina" appears in a list on the Wiki related with MP: "Internet Service Providers with known problems", and that such list is pointed to from the download page itself.

    2. Who would benefit from that? Why not spread port numbers instead? Users might not know where the problem is, as you pointed out, and may not make further investigations for various reasons, or if they are not yet in love with FG they might not bother enough to change ISP hoping that another one would not give the same problem, or they might not be able to switch to another ISP if they reside in some zone where there are no other options (this is not USA or Europe), or they might not be able to do it because they are kids and their parents decide, and they decide considering that another ISP might present the same problem.
Conclusion: I think it would be very good to spread the port numbers, for instance as you said port 5001 for mpserver01, 5002 for mpserver 02... maybe one around or right into 5507...

Of course relay ports and crossfeed ports might conflict and require being moved too, maybe adding a fixed offset... Or they might stay low if it's numbers close to 5000 and the main port numbers might be something like 5501, 5502, 5503...

If tomorrow I get the Speedy optical cable / coax connection and it's ok, I will still be telling you that I think it would be good that FG MP port numbers are spread over different values.

The fact it is not a commercial project doesn't mean we must not have the goal to minimize problems and loss of time and energy of everybody, foreseeing possible problems "out there on the internet".
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Re: No multiplayer switching to new internet service provide

Postby JazzTp » Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:10 am

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