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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby tdammers » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:19 pm

AAL545 wrote in Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:39 pm:I've thought of this for a while now and that is, how do other Sim's manage their systems?
Xplane, FSX etc etc
In other words it's always good to see how the competitors are doing.


Those other sims are proprietary software, and that makes a huge difference - different economics, different userbase, different release schedule, different incentives. So I'm not sure the comparison is going to be very useful - I simply don't think anyone in the world has the political leverage to enforce compatibility like you can in a closed-source ecosystem.
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby Richard » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:00 am

jomo wrote in Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:08 am:Sorry dear designers - but I see the solution ONLY on your side: You may be designing as many "best of" as you want in as many as you want libraries - but the external views must stay the same!


Agreed that's how things should be; but it's hard to communicate this to all developers - some developers simply don't participate in the forums or other parts of the community.

When I'm flying mostly the problem I see is pilots with outdated versions of my aircraft models (F-14, F-15). I can usually spot these because I know what I'm looking for; but what I can't do is to fix the problems that are caused by someone with an out of date model.

Very rarely do any of the aircraft I've seen have problems that have been caused by the 'designer' changing MP properties; it's almost almost versioning problems, either FG or the aircraft model itself. Most developers understand why it is bad to do arbitrarily change MP properties.
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby jomo » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:26 am

tdammers wrote in Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:17 pm:It's a bit difficult to have technical disputes with people who make technical claims but don't have the required technical understanding.

You are absolutely right: Also I do not understand why you highly qualified designers discuss these complex technical problems with normal minded people
on this wiki-page for users. This page was opened by me 8.Aug.2011 for discussions of event-related items between participants in this event. Of course also event-related technical problems may be reported -- solving the problem then should be done on the technical Support-pages -- so that all designers may notice and help.

So pls. open up a new page for Your technical discussions.
And pls. also read the Forum rules - if you continue your behavior on our page as you are doing, I might be forced to ask the WIKI-Moderator to take actions.
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby wkitty42 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:31 pm

jomo wrote in Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:26 am:You are absolutely right: Also I do not understand why you highly qualified designers discuss these complex technical problems with normal minded people

that's know as educating... like this post and my last one are attempts to educate you (general) about 1) the new LOD system and 2) what this page really is...

jomo wrote in Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:26 am:on this wiki-page for users. This page was opened by me 8.Aug.2011 for discussions of event-related items between participants in this event.

except that this page isn't a wiki page ;)

jomo wrote in Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:26 am:Of course also event-related technical problems may be reported -- solving the problem then should be done on the technical Support-pages -- so that all designers may notice and help.

what? and leave the reporting users out so they can keep on complaining until they finally update their craft and/or sim to the latest with the bug(s) fixed they are complaining about? pshaw... Shirley, you jest...

jomo wrote in Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:26 am:So pls. open up a new page for Your technical discussions.

splits can be done at a later time... when the discussions start, it is not always a good thing to lose folks wanting to read and/or participate by moving to an area they may not even read...

jomo wrote in Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:26 am:And pls. also read the Forum rules - if you continue your behavior on our page as you are doing, I might be forced to ask the WIKI-Moderator to take actions.

THIS page is not a wiki... this is a forum page.. the wiki is "over there" :lol:
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby AAL545 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:06 pm

So pls. open up a new page for Your technical discussions.


I don't have a problem with that,
I only have one request though, no matter where the discussion takes place we need to stay sensible and keep in mind that all we are trying to accomplish is to improve the system.
Too many times I notice that one is touching the nerves of another person, now an argument is okay as long as it's constructive, (even courts use the term ARGUMENT).




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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby it0uchpods » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:54 pm

This is the exact reason why my planes prompt you to update them when out of date. People may not know newer version are available, which is likely the cause of the 777 gear thing, or another.

Kind Regards,
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby AAL545 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:45 pm

This is the exact reason why my planes prompt you to update them when out of date. People may not know newer version are available, which is likely the cause of the 777 gear thing, or another.


How is this possible when I add the plane via the Add-ons section?


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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby it0uchpods » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:48 pm

It doesn't matter. It just checks against a known revision.

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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby tdammers » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:00 pm

jomo wrote in Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:26 am:
tdammers wrote in Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:17 pm:It's a bit difficult to have technical disputes with people who make technical claims but don't have the required technical understanding.

You are absolutely right: Also I do not understand why you highly qualified designers discuss these complex technical problems with normal minded people
on this wiki-page for users. This page was opened by me 8.Aug.2011 for discussions of event-related items between participants in this event. Of course also event-related technical problems may be reported -- solving the problem then should be done on the technical Support-pages -- so that all designers may notice and help.

So pls. open up a new page for Your technical discussions.
And pls. also read the Forum rules - if you continue your behavior on our page as you are doing, I might be forced to ask the WIKI-Moderator to take actions.


And now I'm done. Congratulations. Next time you'll see me around here, or during EDDF sessions, it will be 100% for my amusement; I'll reserve constructive and helpful efforts for elsewhere. Have fun threatening other people.
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby WoodSTokk » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:20 pm

jomo wrote in Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:15 pm:Exactly this is the major problem for all Multiplayer Events!! And it is a growing problem! There are hundreds of libraries with unique versions for the same models. With the new FGFS the designers try to reduce that by using the "fgfs launcher" - thus restricting the model choices (at least for the less knowledgeable users -- I am not sure that will help).

For EDDF I tell already every user since a long that I do only support/download models from
-- http://home.flightgear.org/download/
-- https://github.com/FGMEMBERS

Does anybody has a better proposal how we can ensure that all participants in events are using compatible models?


Yes, i propose you shoud use the official hanger from FG and this is FGaddon.
You should NOT use the FGMEMBERS hangar! It is not the official FG hangar, ist often outdated and aircrafts include sometimes material that is questionable if it comes to the licence.
As legoboy said before, the latest 777 is on FGaddon and if all simler use that aircraft in a event, you should not have any problems.
I assume that the problem is on your side because you use a 777 from an unoffical and unsupported hangar.
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby jomo » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:25 pm

WoodSTokk wrote in Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:20 pm:Yes, i propose you shoud use the official hanger from FG and this is FGaddon.
You should NOT use the FGMEMBERS hangar! It is not the official FG hangar, ist often outdated and aircrafts include sometimes material that is questionable if it comes to the licence.
I have no idea how you define the master-library - I would always start on the Home-Page of the program in question! Thus:
---> http://home.flightgear.org/
---> Download
---> Download Aircraft (or Main Prog or Scenery or source etc.)
---> Official Aircraft ---> http://mirrors.ibiblio.org/flightgear/ftp/Aircraft/
I do agree that in this library there never will be all the most beautiful (newest, looking, functional, etc.) models -- BUT that is the base if you talk about an FGFS home base. But nobody wants to restrict the "designer" from developing always the best of the best outside of that! That engineering wish is now pretty good supported by the new "fgfs launcher", that allows every user to define from which library he wants to get the newest updates for the model(s) he uses.

BUT the designers now have to be aware of 3 situations, based on the fact that:
If anybody sees a model on his user-screen - he always
a) sees that visible-model as he downloaded it (maybe years ago!)
b) being controlled by the new control-model from far away via MP!

Thus: If a designer changes his model, the "visual model" (on the user-disk) may now not match the new "control model" (on the designer disk)!! Thus we have 3 possibilities:
1) The designer changes the model to be used just by him-selves -->> no problem at all (but the model just may not be visible to others!)
2) The designer will use that model together with some friends - then he might distribute that to all his friends --> again no problem at all because all of them have the same "visible+control" parts (it just may not be visible to others)
3) If you (and friends) want to bee seen by the whole community, you must remember that all others will only see their locally installed model --> CONTROLLED by your controls (via MP). And that may be incompatible!

And that is the issue I have with the designers that distribute new models into any library - without caring about the "old versions" still being used! In EDDF-Triangle I make movies of every model coming in. And based on the above, those incoming models may use different "control-models" than my "visual-model" on my disk - receiving that controls from the outside (may they be older or newer!)!

Please accept that it is not possible to have multiple models with the same name but different structure etc. on one local disk!

Right now I often noticed that problem (as ATC) with 2 models:
- 777 that shows some minor difference in outside functions (e.g. wheels: I would not care - but the pilot does!)
- A320 some version of that model appears on radar + screen - others only on radar
etc.

That is why I say: For events the engineers must find a solution for designing their unique models so, that they have one "visible model" that can be controlled by any newly designed "control model". So all FGFS-member just need to load that common "visible model" that can be controlled by all versions of the "control model".
And pls keep in mind: Some users are satisfied with the model they have - they do not care to consonantly update their models!
Pls do not shoot me - I know how hard world-wide engineering is!
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby legoboyvdlp » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:32 pm

- A320 some version of that model appears on radar + screen - others only on radar


Our model does not have that problem - if people get it from the correct location - our github - they will not have that problem either. FGMEMBERS is no longer maintained by us.
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby AAL545 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:40 pm

Need help here.
How do I enter missing waypoints/fixes on FG? When I enter the info on the route manager it doesn't accept it.
When I create a route using GpsPrune and save it as GPX format FG crashes.


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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby V12 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:14 pm

Try Skyvector, I have not any problem with GPX files. Use Send plan to, click on GPX and download Dynon GPS.
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Re: EDDF-Triangle

Postby AAL545 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:04 pm

Try Skyvector, I have not any problem with GPX files. Use Send plan to, click on GPX and download Dynon GPS.


Okay I created an account but they aren't sending me the further instructions and I can't log in yet.


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