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P-40 Warhawk Coming Soon

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Re: P-40 Warhawk Coming Soon

Postby gooneybird » Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:27 pm

Have a look at these links, they may help with some of the details.
http://www.cybermodeler.com/aircraft/p-40/p-40e_walk.shtml
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/101-200/walk139_P-40E/walk139.htm

I don't know the quality of the 3view you used but if you want another one (or two) I have a couple of decent ones.
I take it you are doing the Short tailed P-40E, that seemed to be the most widely used.
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Re: P-40 Warhawk Coming Soon

Postby jack » Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:07 pm

MOJO wrote:I have the plugin, from what I can remeber you just copy and place it into the plug in file in sketchup, what is the proble you are having with it?


The plugin works most of the time, but it causes immense lag, and doesn't correctly export sometimes. Especially with this model, out of 5 or 6 tries, the model has exported to a certain degree, then my comp starts to lag, to the point where I am forced to force quit skecthup. Maybe if I gave you the .skp file, you could try expoting it to .ac and see if it works? :D


gooneybird wrote:Have a look at these links, they may help with some of the details.
http://www.cybermodeler.com/aircraft/p-40/p-40e_walk.shtml
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/101-200/walk139_P-40E/walk139.htm

I don't know the quality of the 3view you used but if you want another one (or two) I have a couple of decent ones.
I take it you are doing the Short tailed P-40E, that seemed to be the most widely used.


Yes, I'm doing the short tailed P-40E, and thanks for the pictures! Those are really helpful. I've noticed that some of the P-40's in the pics have external gunsights, and some don't. Would it be realistic to put an electronic pipper in? I believe they started producing those Mid-Late WWII.
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Re: P-40 Warhawk Coming Soon

Postby MOJO » Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:23 pm

Yeah sure Jack, I'll put my email in a PM but for the mean time when you export something of that size it will take a while so may be best to set it going and then go and do something else (away from the computer) for a bit, the more you play around with the mouse while it is exporting the more chance of it crashing but by all means send it over just let me know what you want me to do with it.

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Re: P-40 Warhawk Coming Soon

Postby gooneybird » Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:50 pm

jackmermod wrote:I've noticed that some of the P-40's in the pics have external gunsights, and some don't. Would it be realistic to put an electronic pipper in? I believe they started producing those Mid-Late WWII.


Yes that's OK, the ring and bead sight was only there as a backup.
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Re: P-40 Warhawk Coming Soon

Postby jack » Sat Jun 26, 2010 5:24 am

Ok, so I'm almost done transitioning the model over to AC3D. I ended up having to cut the model into 6 different smaller models in order for the export from sketchup to work. I'll put the plane back together in AC3D, and finish painting the parts to be animated. After that's done, I'll add in the P-51D pilot model, add cockpit instruments, and try to make as much as I can of the FDM. If I have problems with the FDM, I'll turn it over to someone with a lot of experience in that field. I'm thinking of animating the recoil in each machine gun, that could be interesting. :D
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Re: P-40 Warhawk Coming Soon

Postby Intel-Qube » Sat Jun 26, 2010 6:10 am

jackmermod wrote:I'm thinking of animating the recoil in each machine gun, that could be interesting. :D

Yes it would be. 8)
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Re: P-40 Warhawk Coming Soon

Postby jack » Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:15 am

Ok, to keep everyone updated:

The model exterior is complete, and it is being transitioned to one .ac file, which wasn't easy, because of an excessive amount of polygons in the model. I hope that the model can be completely transitioned to .ac format within 2 days. After that, I will try to find someone to name objects such as flaps, elevators, gear, etc. From there, I will use parts of the P-51D FDM, as I am told both aircraft are similar in performance.
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Re: P-40 Warhawk Coming Soon

Postby hvengel » Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:03 pm

jackmermod wrote:Ok, to keep everyone updated:

The model exterior is complete, and it is being transitioned to one .ac file, which wasn't easy, because of an excessive amount of polygons in the model. I hope that the model can be completely transitioned to .ac format within 2 days. After that, I will try to find someone to name objects such as flaps, elevators, gear, etc. From there, I will use parts of the P-51D FDM, as I am told both aircraft are similar in performance.


The P-51D and the P-40 have significantly different flight and performance characteristics. The P-51 will outperform the P-40 in almost every way and is actually more docile particularly near and at the stall. In addition the P-51D has a different power plant than the P-40 and the difference at high altitudes is dramatic (I am assuming that you are modeling an Allison powered P-40 since you appear to have a three bladed Curtis prop).

But this may not matter much since the current YASim FDM for the P-51D is not very accurate because the P-51D has way too wide of a performance envelope to be correctly modeled by YASim. Many of these WWII US aircraft had extensive wind tunnel and flight tests done by the NACA and many if not all of the reports generated from these tests are available on the NASA Technical Reports server. When I was researching the P-51D I know that I saw some reports on the P-40 located on the NASA server. If the P-40 reports are anything like the P-51 reports, and I would expect this to be the case, these will include detailed lift, drag, stall and control information in a form that can be fairly easily used to create a JSBSim FDM.

Now that you have a 3D model and are about to look at the FDM the real work of modeling begins. This starts with finding as much technical data as you can about your aircraft so you can then understanding how this can be used to construct an accurate FDM. This is a time consuming, tedious detail oriented task. For aircraft where there is a significant amount of well documented flight test and wind tunnel data (like most WWII US fighters) you should seriously consider using JSBSim since much of this data can be plugged directly into the FDM and if this is done correctly the resulting model can be very realistic. But you can be certain that it will be a lot of work and will require that you pay lots of attention to many very small details in order to get it right. If you are interested in using the P-51D as a starting point there is an advanced JSBSim FDM available for the P-51D. You can download it here:

http://rapidshare.com/files/380452171/p ... r.bz2.html

Using it as an advanced template for a US WWII fighter you should be able to use data found in contemporary NACA test reports to change the various tables and functions to morph this into a P-40 FDM. There are also many other systems in this FDM (weapons, engine controls and so on) that should be close to correct for the P-40 since these systems were more of less standardized across all contemporary US fighters. I should add that the JSBSim version of the P-51D is the ONLY WWII US fighter available for FlightGear that correctly models the engine controls for these aircraft.
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Re: P-40 Warhawk Coming Soon

Postby runtujazz » Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:30 pm

I would like to offer my contribution to design the livery of P40. Who can send the design out-line to be compiled with Gimp?

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Re: P-40 Warhawk Coming Soon

Postby DFaber » Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:28 am

hvengel wrote:But this may not matter much since the current YASim FDM for the P-51D is not very accurate because the P-51D has way too wide of a performance envelope to be correctly modeled by YASim.


Looks like you haven't tried the Yasim p51d for a while.
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Re: P-40 Warhawk Coming Soon

Postby jack » Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:33 am

My plan is to modify the P-51D FDM to fit the characteristics of the P-40. This will be a lot easier than starting from scratch, and will probably be a lot better. No need to debate this anymore, I can see flame wars in lurking in the future. :wink:
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Re: P-40 Warhawk Coming Soon

Postby WheelDweller » Sun Jul 25, 2010 5:20 am

jackmermod wrote:Gooney, hows this? :D


Actually I had to look this one up!

Both are right. Early models seem to be of one-piece construction, later models (like E and beyond) use two very narrow doors. (Like about 1/4 the size shown in this sketch). Honestly I didn't realize that, and I've been using Revell's 1/32 P-40 of old in my mind's eye all this time.

I have the Aircraft-in-Action books on the P-40 as well as another rare publication to help with this. In fact, I want to help a lot, if possible.

What I'd *LIKE* to do is a livery for 'each and every' Flying Tiger, in honor of them. Only ground crew still survive. I've been working towards this for about a year now, since the death of the last pilot in September, with limited success.

Sure, some stuff would have to be guesses- the spinners were re-painted many times and most of what we have are B/W photos anyway. But I have lots of good artwork, lots of ought-to-be-exact research and just NO IDEA how to get any of this done on Linux. :/ I've loaded a Windows VM on which I can unpack/change stuff, that's a good start.

I'd really like to get an earlier "export-C" version or so for the 100+ liveries to go on; it can wait until this effort is done. I'm really wanting to help; I don't want any money for it, and I think the 'legacy' craft should not be sold. Ya know? With FlightGear we can have this for...well...ever!
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Re: P-40 Warhawk Coming Soon

Postby jack » Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:42 am

Ok, so the P-40 model is complete, and needs parts to be named. What I need, is for someone to go into AC3D, and name all the parts.(e.g. Propeller, Gear, gear door, rudder, flaps, etc.) The model can't be further developed until this is done! :shock:





Here is the complete P-40 Model:P-40.ac
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Re: P-40 Warhawk Coming Soon

Postby skyop » Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:23 pm

I'll take a crack at it- no guarantees, though. :P
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Re: P-40 Warhawk Coming Soon

Postby skyop » Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:51 pm

Here you go: P-40_new.ac

Parts named to the best of my ability. Note that the scale is off (I had to export 3DS from AC3D, then import it into Blender which messes up the scale), so use the scale tool as necessary. ;)
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