Wednesday evening session discussion thread.

[Volador]

Six of us for this event and later joined by a random chopper, who was this? You should join us for the next event



Eagle and Beni having all of the fun

[Volador]

ok I've tried a few take-offs and landings in the T6 and read up on some things... but it is a tricky aircraft on the ground - one hand on the , and . for alternate brakes is a little dance - any tips for keeping it in a straight line? I have it good authority that the tail wheel can be locked

Also an interesting read here: (The aircraft looks very similar if it's not the Texan T6)
https://www.t6harvard.com/pilot-stories/flying-the-at-6/

[Ysop]

Chris, of course you can train WWII-style in the T6, but the T6II (!) is the aircraft of choice for the event.
Easy to fly, but things are happening fast...

Shall we make a real tutoring lesson out of it?

[Ysop]

Information India posted!

[TheEagle]

Great ! I'm in for the formation flying !

[Volador]

Niels, did you say something about carrier landings last Wednesday? Maybe I imagined it but in any case there's no carrier hook etc get or the T6II (my version anyway)

[Ysop]

Correct. The T6II is the primary training all wings are using after a few hours in a C172 or similar.

Getting hooked on with a carrier the week after this on a faster airplane. A bit of training before this might give a better success rate.
Drop a note, if you want to be thrown in at the deep end directly.

[Volador]

OK, I get it now. Good plan to go step by step I'll keep on with the practice in the T6II time allowing - one thing I have noticed is loss of power sometimes, even full throttle - very strange unless I've over cranked it and it's broken the aircraft, it also glides when you think it would drop but I get the sense that the prop takes a good while to wind down the rpm so maybe that's it... fun and games

[MariuszXC]

Correct. The T6II is the primary training all wings are using...

Is this the right one?


I ask because it throws a lot of errors in the log file. There seem to be interependencies on at least two other aircraft mixed in. Some texture from CitationX and from b1900d. Also two engines are defined in JSBSim and some effects are not found..

Code: Select all

    0.00 [INFO]:general   /compile/fg_next/flightgear/src/Main/main.cxx:654: FlightGear:  Version 2020.4.0
    0.00 [INFO]:general   /compile/fg_next/flightgear/src/Main/main.cxx:655: FlightGear:  Build Type Dev
    0.00 [INFO]:general   /compile/fg_next/flightgear/src/Main/main.cxx:656: Built with GNU C++ version 9.4
    0.00 [INFO]:general   /compile/fg_next/flightgear/src/Main/main.cxx:657: Jenkins number/ID 0:none
    0.02 [INFO]:input     /compile/fg_next/flightgear/src/Main/options.cxx:2415: aircraft = T-6
    0.04 [INFO]:general   /compile/fg_next/flightgear/src/Main/fg_init.cxx:321: Loading aircraft -set file from:Path "/myAircraft/Aircraft/PC-9M/T-6-set.xml"
    0.04 [ALRT]:aircraft  /compile/fg_next/flightgear/src/Main/fg_init.cxx:431: Aircraft does not specify a minimum FG version: please add one at /sim/minimum-fg-version
    0.17 [INFO]:general   /compile/fg_next/flightgear/src/Main/fg_init.cxx:967: aircraft-dir = "/myAircraft/Aircraft/PC-9M"
    0.17 [INFO]:general   /compile/fg_next/flightgear/src/Main/fg_init.cxx:972: aircraft-search-paths =
   /myAircraft/Aircraft
    0.20 [WARN]:io        /compile/fg_next/simgear/simgear/scene/model/ModelRegistry.cxx:575: Image loading failed:
    0.20 [WARN]:OSG       /compile/fg_next/install/simgear/include/simgear/debug/OsgIoCapture.hxx:37: Error reading file /myAircraft/Aircraft/PC-9M/gplv3_logo.svg: file not handled
    0.20 [INFO]:view      /compile/fg_next/flightgear/src/Viewer/splash.cxx:312: Splash logo image Path "/myAircraft/Aircraft/PC-9M/gplv3_logo.svg" failed to load
    0.32 [INFO]:general   /compile/fg_next/flightgear/src/Main/fg_init.cxx:939: FG_ROOT = "Path "/compile/fg_next/install/flightgear/fgdata""
    0.38 [ALRT]:terrain   /compile/fg_next/flightgear/src/Scenery/scenery.cxx:319: Unexpected property in listener /scenery[0]/elevation-mesh[0]/lod-range-factor[0]
    0.38 [ALRT]:terrain   /compile/fg_next/flightgear/src/Scenery/scenery.cxx:319: Unexpected property in listener /sim[0]/rendering[0]/static-lod[0]/detailed[0]
    0.38 [ALRT]:terrain   /compile/fg_next/flightgear/src/Scenery/scenery.cxx:319: Unexpected property in listener /sim[0]/rendering[0]/static-lod[0]/rough-delta[0]
    0.38 [ALRT]:terrain   /compile/fg_next/flightgear/src/Scenery/scenery.cxx:319: Unexpected property in listener /sim[0]/rendering[0]/static-lod[0]/bare-delta[0]
    3.83 [INFO]:systems   /compile/fg_next/flightgear/src/Systems/system_mgr.cxx:44: Reading systems from Path "/compile/fg_next/install/flightgear/fgdata/Aircraft/Generic/generic-systems.xml"
    3.95 [WARN]:input     /compile/fg_next/flightgear/src/GUI/new_gui.cxx:493: dialog Path "/myAircraft/Aircraft/PC-9M/gui/dialogs/menu.xml" has no name; skipping.
    4.50 [INFO]:flight    /compile/fg_next/flightgear/src/FDM/JSBSim/JSBSim.cxx:238: After loading aero definition file ...
    4.50 [INFO]:flight    /compile/fg_next/flightgear/src/FDM/JSBSim/JSBSim.cxx:241: num engines = 2
    4.50 [INFO]:systems   /compile/fg_next/flightgear/src/Systems/electrical.cxx:382: NOTICE: System manager configuration specifies an electrical system: Aircraft/Generic/generic-electrical.xml but it is being overridden by the one specified in the -set.xml file: Aircraft/PC-9M/Systems/electrical.xml
    4.50 [WARN]:systems   /compile/fg_next/flightgear/src/Systems/electrical.cxx:400: Reading deprecated xml electrical system model from
    /myAircraft/Aircraft/PC-9M/Systems/electrical.xml
    5.03 [INFO]:sound     /compile/fg_next/flightgear/src/Sound/fg_fx.cxx:131: Reading sound sound from Path "/myAircraft/Aircraft/PC-9M/Sounds/PC-9M-sound.xml"
    5.18 [WARN]:OSG       /compile/fg_next/install/simgear/include/simgear/debug/OsgIoCapture.hxx:37: PNG lib warning : iCCP: known incorrect sRGB profile
    5.20 [WARN]:OSG       /compile/fg_next/install/simgear/include/simgear/debug/OsgIoCapture.hxx:37:
    5.20 [ALRT]:OSG       /compile/fg_next/install/simgear/include/simgear/debug/OsgIoCapture.hxx:37: osgDB ac3d reader: could not find texture "/export/fgfs/flightgear-fgaddon/Aircraft/PC-9M/Models/Liveries/Factory.png"
    5.20 [ALRT]:OSG       /compile/fg_next/install/simgear/include/simgear/debug/OsgIoCapture.hxx:37: osgDB ac3d reader: could not find texture "Factory.png"
    5.26 [ALRT]:OSG       /compile/fg_next/install/simgear/include/simgear/debug/OsgIoCapture.hxx:37: osgDB ac3d reader: could not find texture "/export/fgfs/flightgear-fgaddon/Aircraft/PC-9M/Models/grey-blue-flood.png"
    5.26 [ALRT]:OSG       /compile/fg_next/install/simgear/include/simgear/debug/OsgIoCapture.hxx:37: osgDB ac3d reader: could not find texture "grey-blue-flood.png"
    5.29 [ALRT]:OSG       /compile/fg_next/install/simgear/include/simgear/debug/OsgIoCapture.hxx:37:
    5.29 [WARN]:OSG       /compile/fg_next/install/simgear/include/simgear/debug/OsgIoCapture.hxx:37: PNG lib warning : iCCP: profile 'Photoshop ICC profile': 1000000h: invalid rendering intent
    5.90 [WARN]:OSG       /compile/fg_next/install/simgear/include/simgear/debug/OsgIoCapture.hxx:37:
    5.90 [ALRT]:OSG       /compile/fg_next/install/simgear/include/simgear/debug/OsgIoCapture.hxx:37: osgDB ac3d reader: could not find texture "/export/fgfs/flightgear-fgaddon/Aircraft/b1900d/Models/interior.png"
    5.90 [ALRT]:OSG       /compile/fg_next/install/simgear/include/simgear/debug/OsgIoCapture.hxx:37: osgDB ac3d reader: could not find texture "interior.png"
    5.94 [ALRT]:OSG       /compile/fg_next/install/simgear/include/simgear/debug/OsgIoCapture.hxx:37: osgDB ac3d reader: could not find texture "/export/fgfs/flightgear-fgaddon/trunk/Aircraft/CitationX/Models/labels.png"
    5.94 [ALRT]:OSG       /compile/fg_next/install/simgear/include/simgear/debug/OsgIoCapture.hxx:37: osgDB ac3d reader: could not find texture "labels.png"
    5.96 [INFO]:cockpit   /compile/fg_next/flightgear/src/Cockpit/panel_io.cxx:655: Reading properties for panel Nav Panel
    6.00 [ALRT]:io        /compile/fg_next/simgear/simgear/scene/model/SGReaderWriterXML.cxx:672: Failed to load file: "Aircraft/CitationX/Models/Instruments/PFD/text3d.xml"
    6.00 [WARN]:general   /compile/fg_next/simgear/simgear/debug/ErrorReportingCallback.cxx:93: Error:not found from XML/animation load::Couldn't find file for submodel:Aircraft/CitationX/Models/Instruments/PFD/text3d.xml
   Path "Aircraft/CitationX/Models/Instruments/PFD/text3d.xml"
    6.04 [ALRT]:io        /compile/fg_next/simgear/simgear/scene/model/SGReaderWriterXML.cxx:672: Failed to load file: "Aircraft/CitationX/Models/Instruments/EICAS/Etext3d.xml"
    6.04 [WARN]:general   /compile/fg_next/simgear/simgear/debug/ErrorReportingCallback.cxx:93: Error:not found from XML/animation load::Couldn't find file for submodel:Aircraft/CitationX/Models/Instruments/EICAS/Etext3d.xml
   Path "Aircraft/CitationX/Models/Instruments/EICAS/Etext3d.xml"
    6.05 [WARN]:general   /compile/fg_next/simgear/simgear/debug/ErrorReportingCallback.cxx:93: Error:misconfigured from XML/animation load::Could not find at least one of the following object for animation:'text3d'
   Path "/myAircraft/Aircraft/PC-9M/Models/Cockpit/Instruments/EICAS/EICAS3d.xml"
    6.05 [ALRT]:io        /compile/fg_next/simgear/simgear/scene/model/animation.cxx:462: Could not find at least one of the following objects for animation: 'text3d' in file: /myAircraft/Aircraft/PC-9M/Models/Cockpit/Instruments/EICAS/EICAS3d.xml
    6.13 [INFO]:cockpit   /compile/fg_next/flightgear/src/Cockpit/panel_io.cxx:655: Reading properties for panel Nav Panel
    6.13 [ALRT]:io        /compile/fg_next/simgear/simgear/scene/model/SGReaderWriterXML.cxx:672: Failed to load file: "Aircraft/CitationX/Models/Instruments/PFD/text3d.xml"
    6.13 [WARN]:general   /compile/fg_next/simgear/simgear/debug/ErrorReportingCallback.cxx:93: Error:not found from XML/animation load::Couldn't find file for submodel:Aircraft/CitationX/Models/Instruments/PFD/text3d.xml
   Path "Aircraft/CitationX/Models/Instruments/PFD/text3d.xml"
    6.14 [ALRT]:io        /compile/fg_next/simgear/simgear/scene/model/SGReaderWriterXML.cxx:672: Failed to load file: "Aircraft/CitationX/Models/Instruments/EICAS/Etext3d.xml"
    6.14 [WARN]:general   /compile/fg_next/simgear/simgear/debug/ErrorReportingCallback.cxx:93: Error:not found from XML/animation load::Couldn't find file for submodel:Aircraft/CitationX/Models/Instruments/EICAS/Etext3d.xml
   Path "Aircraft/CitationX/Models/Instruments/EICAS/Etext3d.xml"
    6.14 [WARN]:general   /compile/fg_next/simgear/simgear/debug/ErrorReportingCallback.cxx:93: Error:misconfigured from XML/animation load::Could not find at least one of the following object for animation:'text3d'
   Path "/myAircraft/Aircraft/PC-9M/Models/Cockpit/Instruments/EICAS/EICAS3d.xml"
    6.14 [ALRT]:io        /compile/fg_next/simgear/simgear/scene/model/animation.cxx:462: Could not find at least one of the following objects for animation: 'text3d' in file: /myAircraft/Aircraft/PC-9M/Models/Cockpit/Instruments/EICAS/EICAS3d.xml
    6.18 [ALRT]:io        /compile/fg_next/simgear/simgear/scene/model/SGReaderWriterXML.cxx:672: Failed to load file: "Aircraft/PC-9M/Models/Pilot/Instructor.xml"
    6.18 [WARN]:general   /compile/fg_next/simgear/simgear/debug/ErrorReportingCallback.cxx:93: Error:not found from XML/animation load::Couldn't find file for submodel:Aircraft/PC-9M/Models/Pilot/Instructor.xml
   Path "Aircraft/PC-9M/Models/Pilot/Instructor.xml"
    6.30 [WARN]:general   /compile/fg_next/simgear/simgear/debug/ErrorReportingCallback.cxx:93: Error:bad data from shader/effect::No shader source code defined for effect
   Path "/myAircraft/Aircraft/PC-9M/Models/Effects/pc7-bumpspec-reflection.eff"
    6.66 [INFO]:cockpit   /compile/fg_next/flightgear/src/Cockpit/panel_io.cxx:655: Reading properties for panel Nav Panel
    6.67 [ALRT]:io        /compile/fg_next/simgear/simgear/scene/model/SGReaderWriterXML.cxx:672: Failed to load file: "Aircraft/CitationX/Models/Instruments/PFD/text3d.xml"
    6.67 [WARN]:general   /compile/fg_next/simgear/simgear/debug/ErrorReportingCallback.cxx:93: Error:not found from XML/animation load::Couldn't find file for submodel:Aircraft/CitationX/Models/Instruments/PFD/text3d.xml
   Path "Aircraft/CitationX/Models/Instruments/PFD/text3d.xml"
    6.67 [ALRT]:io        /compile/fg_next/simgear/simgear/scene/model/SGReaderWriterXML.cxx:672: Failed to load file: "Aircraft/CitationX/Models/Instruments/EICAS/Etext3d.xml"
    6.67 [WARN]:general   /compile/fg_next/simgear/simgear/debug/ErrorReportingCallback.cxx:93: Error:not found from XML/animation load::Couldn't find file for submodel:Aircraft/CitationX/Models/Instruments/EICAS/Etext3d.xml
   Path "Aircraft/CitationX/Models/Instruments/EICAS/Etext3d.xml"
    6.68 [WARN]:general   /compile/fg_next/simgear/simgear/debug/ErrorReportingCallback.cxx:93: Error:misconfigured from XML/animation load::Could not find at least one of the following object for animation:'text3d'
   Path "/myAircraft/Aircraft/PC-9M/Models/Cockpit/Instruments/EICAS/EICAS3d.xml"
    6.68 [ALRT]:io        /compile/fg_next/simgear/simgear/scene/model/animation.cxx:462: Could not find at least one of the following objects for animation: 'text3d' in file: /myAircraft/Aircraft/PC-9M/Models/Cockpit/Instruments/EICAS/EICAS3d.xml
    6.75 [INFO]:cockpit   /compile/fg_next/flightgear/src/Cockpit/panel_io.cxx:655: Reading properties for panel Nav Panel
    6.76 [ALRT]:io        /compile/fg_next/simgear/simgear/scene/model/SGReaderWriterXML.cxx:672: Failed to load file: "Aircraft/CitationX/Models/Instruments/PFD/text3d.xml"
    6.76 [WARN]:general   /compile/fg_next/simgear/simgear/debug/ErrorReportingCallback.cxx:93: Error:not found from XML/animation load::Couldn't find file for submodel:Aircraft/CitationX/Models/Instruments/PFD/text3d.xml
   Path "Aircraft/CitationX/Models/Instruments/PFD/text3d.xml"
    6.76 [ALRT]:io        /compile/fg_next/simgear/simgear/scene/model/SGReaderWriterXML.cxx:672: Failed to load file: "Aircraft/CitationX/Models/Instruments/EICAS/Etext3d.xml"
    6.76 [WARN]:general   /compile/fg_next/simgear/simgear/debug/ErrorReportingCallback.cxx:93: Error:not found from XML/animation load::Couldn't find file for submodel:Aircraft/CitationX/Models/Instruments/EICAS/Etext3d.xml
   Path "Aircraft/CitationX/Models/Instruments/EICAS/Etext3d.xml"
    6.76 [WARN]:general   /compile/fg_next/simgear/simgear/debug/ErrorReportingCallback.cxx:93: Error:misconfigured from XML/animation load::Could not find at least one of the following object for animation:'text3d'
   Path "/myAircraft/Aircraft/PC-9M/Models/Cockpit/Instruments/EICAS/EICAS3d.xml"
    6.76 [ALRT]:io        /compile/fg_next/simgear/simgear/scene/model/animation.cxx:462: Could not find at least one of the following objects for animation: 'text3d' in file: /myAircraft/Aircraft/PC-9M/Models/Cockpit/Instruments/EICAS/EICAS3d.xml
    6.77 [ALRT]:io        /compile/fg_next/simgear/simgear/scene/model/SGReaderWriterXML.cxx:672: Failed to load file: "Aircraft/PC-9M/Models/Pilot/Instructor.xml"
    6.77 [WARN]:general   /compile/fg_next/simgear/simgear/debug/ErrorReportingCallback.cxx:93: Error:not found from XML/animation load::Couldn't find file for submodel:Aircraft/PC-9M/Models/Pilot/Instructor.xml
   Path "Aircraft/PC-9M/Models/Pilot/Instructor.xml"
    7.10 [ALRT]:OSG       /compile/fg_next/install/simgear/include/simgear/debug/OsgIoCapture.hxx:37: osgDB ac3d reader: could not find texture "/export/fgfs/flightgear-fgaddon/Aircraft/b1900d/Models/interior.png"
    7.10 [ALRT]:OSG       /compile/fg_next/install/simgear/include/simgear/debug/OsgIoCapture.hxx:37: osgDB ac3d reader: could not find texture "interior.png"
    7.22 [ALRT]:io        /compile/fg_next/simgear/simgear/scene/model/SGReaderWriterXML.cxx:672: Failed to load file: "Aircraft/PC-9M/Models/Pilot/Instructor.xml"
    7.22 [WARN]:general   /compile/fg_next/simgear/simgear/debug/ErrorReportingCallback.cxx:93: Error:not found from XML/animation load::Couldn't find file for submodel:Aircraft/PC-9M/Models/Pilot/Instructor.xml
   Path "Aircraft/PC-9M/Models/Pilot/Instructor.xml"
   16.70 [INFO]:nasal     /compile/fg_next/flightgear/src/Scripting/NasalSys.cxx:557: setWeight() - not supported for jsb


I got the plane from flightgear-fgaddon-r6313-trunk-Aircraft-PC-9M.zip (i.e. downloaded from SF).

It is fun to fly even as-is, though

[TheEagle]

Well, to resolve the b1900 and citationII errors I'd think that installing the two aircraft should help ? Anyways, as long as the aircraft is usable there is no reason to worry about those errors ! (except if you are the developer of the aircraft)

[TheEagle]

Okay, it's not my favorite AC ! The ground handling is a bit awkward … The turn radius is much too big for such a small aircraft IMO.
When I finally lined up successfully and push the throttle up, at 40 kts the thing suddenly pitched up to 90° twice - on the third time it somehow went underground and the FDM became invalid. On the second try, I managed to takeoff without crashing, but I couldn't stay on the centerline - the rudder somehow had no effect at all ?? But the performance is great - you can climb +2000 FPM at 200 kts !

[MariuszXC]

Well, to resolve the b1900 and citationII errors I'd think that installing the two aircraft should help ? Anyways, as long as the aircraft is usable there is no reason to worry about those errors ! (except if you are the developer of the aircraft)

Well... l will just say that my view of such is significantly different (and that I am a bit surprised that _you_ answered that way).

If nothing else, errors like not found textures tell me that this plane was released without even bothering _once_ to test it on a system with a clean FG install. Same thought when I see references to resources from other aircrafts, or effects refering to undefined code.

Things like FDM declaring _two_ engines on a single engine plane raise my brows a bit higher.

But.. OK, this is not a development thread and not a plane by any of us, so let's have fun flying it

[Ysop]

Correct, let's have fun with it. In the development environment we are living in aircrafts are not necessarily tested completely and with different people involved over years glitches can occur.

If we are running out of projects one day, we can give aircrafts a "Wednesday group"-makeover

For training purposes it runs fine without B1900 and CitationX installed.

Activating nose wheel steering with "m" helps tremendously with the turning radius

I do not experience the described FDM behavior. This might be connected to an issue as discussed early, when JSBsim calculation rate and frame rate meet a unlucky moments.

[TheEagle]

Activating nose wheel steering with "m" helps tremendously with the turning radius

Ah, and probably also with staying on the centerline upon takeoff ! Will try it, thanks !

and that I am a bit surprised that _you_ answered that way

Uh, I don't really understand why ?

[MariuszXC]

Correct, let's have fun with it.
If we are running out of projects one day, we can give aircrafts a "Wednesday group"-makeover

So... I had some fun with the makeover
Result: http://153.19.48.57/tmp/PC-9M.zip
At least warnings are gone (except the one about minimum FG version not set - did not mess with that one)