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172 spinning to the left

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Re: 172 spinning to the left

Postby V12 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:15 am

Sure ?
I have some hours of lessons in 737-800 EASA training device, on all my hardware 737-800YV behaves reasonable close to that EASA device, but FG2018.X.X C172 like wild horse with same joystick with same calibration. Is possible to calibrate joystick (or yoke) separately for each plane without scripting or advanced knowledge of XML, NASAL etc ? Not all users can or want to dig in the XML defs.

I did not tested last C172 in latest FG, I don't know how sensitive is her control.
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Re: 172 spinning to the left

Postby GinGin » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:39 am

Sorry, but not very relevant as a 737 does not have a yaw induced reaction when throttle are applied ( Which seems to be the problem there)
What does wild horse mean?

It seems indeed to be a joystick calibration problem.
No need to go into xml etc, you can just go through the joystick software to put a deadband or whatever.
It works nicely with thrusmaster and Target soft at least.
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Re: 172 spinning to the left

Postby V12 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:48 am

It is very relevant. If in 737 I deflect joystick 2 milimeters, plane reacts smoothly. When with same joystick with same calibration do this in C172, plane make wild movement with large acceleration.
IMHO, It is not good idea make separate calibration for separate plane. If user uses only one plane, there is not problem fine tune control calibration for his favourite plane with joystick calibration tool.

BTW, Target soft is for Linux too ?
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Re: 172 spinning to the left

Postby GinGin » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:16 pm

Question was about an uncontrolled spinning movement , a bit different than just a “more sensitive than other aircraft “ problem .
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Re: 172 spinning to the left

Postby D-ECHO » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:29 pm

Please note also that aerodynamic forces are a very important factor of how control inputs feel in simulator vs in real life. Having flown on an RL aircraft comparable to the c172p a few times, the control inputs especially in cruise but also during takeoff and landing are rather small, but already have a large aerodynamic force centering the stick/yoke. So given that the c172p FDM is tuned correctly in the way that say 1/3rd aileron deflection leads to X roll and Y yaw moment, this migth feel very unrealistic, because your typical joystick has a way lower force to counteract.
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Re: 172 spinning to the left

Postby V12 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:09 pm

D-ECHO :
You are 100% correct. I forgot that fact about real life feedback force.
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Re: 172 spinning to the left

Postby wlbragg » Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:44 pm

I can add that we have beat this issue to death in the development thread trying to get it to what we think is correct. We have had "multiple" real life pilot input when tuning the FDM, not even they agree completely with each other. But for the most part over a very long time we have managed to get a consensus that we are close and it is acceptable.
With that said, My T.16000M is not sensitive at all and feels right. I don't remember if I adjusted it much if at all. However the peddles are pretty sensitive going down the runway and in flight, I know I had to adjust them and need to do so even a little more.
I can also add that I get about the same reactions in MS2020 with this same equipment and a like aircraft, for what it's worth.
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Re: 172 spinning to the left

Postby Fritz » Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:04 pm

Of course part of is is joystick tuning, as Thorsten mentioned, but I can fly very different planes like the DC-3, the DR 400 and the ASK-13 with the same settings , so it should also be possible with the 172. Part of it is obviously getting used to the plane. Another part is the joystick: Aerodynamic force feedback is one thing, but also the opposite seems to play a role: The real ailerons don't center themselves by a strong spring mechanism, like a joystick does, so it's easier in real life to keep the yokes turned to the side a bit. You probably do it more or less automatically, while you tend to leave the joystick in a relaxed, centered position if you don't concentrate. Using aileron trim in an "aggressive" way (much more than it is necessary on the DC-3) and weakening (!) the joystick spring mechanism helped me to be able to fly the 172 in a more stable way.

Once in the air, it isn't that much more "twitchy" than the DR 400, but on the ground there is one more problem: The nose wheel steering. As there is a related thread already, as I found out today, I'll continue there.
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Re: 172 spinning to the left

Postby Thorsten » Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:53 am

It is very relevant. If in 737 I deflect joystick 2 milimeters, plane reacts smoothly. When with same joystick with same calibration do this in C172, plane make wild movement with large acceleration.


So?

Real planes have pretty different input hardware. Sometimes you're mechanically pulling the airfoil against the airstream. Sometimes there's force augmentation. Sometimes you're just sending a signal to a fly-by-wire system. Some real sticks (like at least some version of the F-16) don't actually move much at all. Some are really yokes.

Pulling the stick in a mechanical setup by some amount deflects the airfoil by some amount - dependent on airspeed, that translates into vastly different accelerations. Pulling the stick in a rate controlled setup by some amount sets a certain angular rate - no matter what your current airspeed is.

If you honestly believe that it is possible to capture all of these systems with a single configuration and the airplane FG-side will magically do all the rest, you're kidding yourself majorly.

If you want to be as realistic as possible, you have to do these configurations per airplane.
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Re: 172 spinning to the left

Postby V12 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:20 am

Sorry, but C172 is not Corvus or Edge.
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Re: 172 spinning to the left

Postby wkitty42 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:23 pm

non sequitur...

the point is "one joystick/yoke config covering all craft in a realistic manner is not possible"...

you should have one comfortable working joystick/yoke config for your 737 and a different but equally comfortable working joystick/yoke config for your c172p... the one for the c172p would likely have relaxed movement multipliers so a 5mm movement of the joystick/yoke would be more comfortable and realistic for the craft's cable controls...
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Re: 172 spinning to the left

Postby I-PIC68 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:42 pm

You just need to practice and adapt to each aircraft
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