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KNUQ-KSFO area HORRIBLE frames

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KNUQ-KSFO area HORRIBLE frames

Postby Octal450 » Sun May 24, 2020 4:52 pm

Hi, since 1-2 years on terrasync scenery, the frame rates at the KSFO area, especially at KNUQ airport are horrible compared to even heavy airports like EHAM or EDDF.

I really wonder why that is? For curiosity I tried the scenery in terraGit for this tile and it doesn't have this lag issue and I don't really see any visual changes.

Anyways wondering if someone can look at this who knows about scenery (as I don't know shit about it lol) and possibly get it resolved?

Kind Regards,
Josh
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Re: KNUQ-KSFO area HORRIBLE frames

Postby Hooray » Sun May 24, 2020 5:24 pm

Without having looked into it, I do remember that KNUQ had some fairly sophisticated groundnets - i.e. it would be interesting to see if the issue persists using just the ufo for instance, because back when we prototyped the ND/MapStructure stuff we realized that the background processes to update the avionics would keep the sim pretty busy, especially near KNUQ

This is something where the Nasal/C++ APIs are pretty low-level, it would be much better to provide a dedicated API for such places, because people may not be aware of the amount of work caused by flying near airports with well developed taxiways

again, this could be a red herring if you can repro the issue using just the ufo or any airliner not using any Canvas/Nasal stuff - but the ND/MapStructure frameworks run background tasks that may be kept very busy around certain airports
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Re: KNUQ-KSFO area HORRIBLE frames

Postby stuart » Sun May 24, 2020 7:11 pm

I've had a quick look at this using the UFO. I'm also getting low frame-rates (for me - I'm running a GTX1660, so it's all relative...). I also checked the groundnet for KNUQ and it just consists of a set of parking positions. So I don't think it's related to Canvas/Nasal or the groundnets.

On my system I think the problem is the random objects. With them enabled there are 6000+ drawables in view and 30-40fps. Disabling them I get 60fps, and the number of drawables drops to 650. Could you try that and let me know if it improves things for you?

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Re: KNUQ-KSFO area HORRIBLE frames

Postby Hooray » Sun May 24, 2020 7:41 pm

That makes sense, I checked the history, and the KNUQ issue was due to the original taxiway layer, which tooks several seconds to process.

To troubleshoot this issue, check out the draw masks under /sim/rendering and report back here, if in doubt by posting osg stats (screen shot)
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Re: KNUQ-KSFO area HORRIBLE frames

Postby Michat » Sun May 24, 2020 7:49 pm

User Miguel has tested this evening from SFO to Moffet. C-172. AMD.

Resulting 15 fps (normal) at SanFran, coming to 7 fps in the KNUQ proximity, after seconds 15 fps (normal), but over KNUQ south field FG crashes, no console, no report. Sorry.


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Re: KNUQ-KSFO area HORRIBLE frames

Postby Octal450 » Sun May 24, 2020 10:51 pm

Hi guys,
thanks for input. In my case I drop from 60 to around 30-40FPS in the general area of KSFO (in that scenery tile, meant), but near KNUQ it goes really bad down to 20 or 15, which for my 1060MaxQ and 6 core i7 is not right.

Btw Hooray, tests were done in my "BlueYellow" glider aircraft which has nothin on it like the ufo, specifically for testing :)

Please advise if there is any info I can give to help it be resolved!

Kind Regards,
Josh
What I do: Flight Dynamics, Systems, Canvas Displays, Autoflight, FlyByWire, Cockpit Animations
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Re: KNUQ-KSFO area HORRIBLE frames

Postby V12 » Mon May 25, 2020 4:25 am

FG can't use more than 2 CPU cores. You need CPU frequency as high as possible. I have Ryzen 7 3700X @4200 MHz, GTX160 and still have problems with extremly low fps on same places. Check :
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=37487
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=37497

Try add --prop:/sim/rendering/multithreading-mode=CullThreadPerCameraDrawThreadPerContext to the launcher's settings tab, this parameter should force FG use 2 cores, in default FG use only one.
I will test KNUQ scenery this evening.
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Re: KNUQ-KSFO area HORRIBLE frames

Postby V12 » Mon May 25, 2020 5:16 pm

With DHC-6 I tested route
https://skyvector.com/?ll=37.7481319931 ... LOO%20KSFO
Lowest fps was 47. I have only standard TS scenery without OSM, but extremly dense autogen buildings (10), vegetation density high, bare LOD 270 km, AW visibility limit 250 km.

Busy Frisco at 60 fps :
Image

KNUQ :
Image

Image

Again Frisco :

Image
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Re: KNUQ-KSFO area HORRIBLE frames

Postby stuart » Mon May 25, 2020 6:01 pm

Hi Josh,

Try disabling Random Scenery Objects and see if that improves your frame-rate.

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Re: KNUQ-KSFO area HORRIBLE frames

Postby wlbragg » Mon May 25, 2020 6:31 pm

Hi Josh,

I tried the scenery in terraGit for this tile and it doesn't have this lag issue and I don't really see any visual changes

Switch to wire frame view and see if there is any difference in complexity between the terraGIT and terraSynce mesh.
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Re: KNUQ-KSFO area HORRIBLE frames

Postby Hooray » Tue May 26, 2020 10:09 am

stuart wrote in Sun May 24, 2020 7:11 pm:On my system I think the problem is the random objects. With them enabled there are 6000+ drawables in view and 30-40fps. Disabling them I get 60fps, and the number of drawables drops to 650. Could you try that and let me know if it improves things for you?


This was taken from the osg stats, right ?
How complicated would it be to make these metrics available in the form of properties (on demand) ?
I think it's a standard osg visitor that is used to gather such metrics, right ?

The point being, we could then use Nasal to toggle samping on/off, and also gather stats for different combinations of locations/aircraft and draw masks - i.e. would have the basic building blocks to build a simple benchmark using Nasal, just by replaying an fgtape file and toggling settings on/off while watching metrics like frame rate/spacing and number of drawable.

CPU vs GPU Bound (split from other topic)
Hooray wrote:What's really needed is a benchmark suite - because different people have different hardware/systems, and are using different startup/runtime settings.

Thus, to make conclusive drawings, different combinations of settings must be tested, with performance being sampled in the background.

It would actually be a neat little project to create different rendering profiles (say different , save those to an XML and then replay a few fgtape files while sampling performance metrics (frame rate, frame spacing) - this could be done with different draw masks set to enable/disable terrain/scenery

Image

Something like this would be easy to create via Nasal, and the sampled data could be written to a CSV file for plotting purposes (think gnuplot).

Alternatively, we could also create a dedicated "Benchmark" add-on and use the Canvas system for plotting.

http://wiki.flightgear.org/How_to_manip ... s_elements
Image

All the building blocks are already in place:

http://wiki.flightgear.org/Graphics_card_profiles
http://wiki.flightgear.org/Flight_Recorder

Thus, the first step would be to copy the flight recorder dialog and remove unnecessary stuff, and then add a combo to load rendering settings from an XML file.

We could then grow a library of such benchmarks for different parts of flightgear (aircraft, scenery)

For plotting purposes, we can either write all sampled data to a file in $FG_HOME or show results via the Canvas
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Re: KNUQ-KSFO area HORRIBLE frames

Postby Octal450 » Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:52 am

wlbragg wrote in Mon May 25, 2020 6:31 pm:Hi Josh,Switch to wire frame view and see if there is any difference in complexity between the terraGIT and terraSynce mesh.


Wayne, sorry for the delay. Will check this

Josh
What I do: Flight Dynamics, Systems, Canvas Displays, Autoflight, FlyByWire, Cockpit Animations
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