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Upgrading Perugia LIRZ Airport

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Re: Upgrading Perugia LIRZ Airport

Postby FlyingGriffin » Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:28 pm

LIRZ has now a parking lot :-)

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Re: Upgrading Perugia LIRZ Airport

Postby FlyingGriffin » Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:11 pm

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Aerial view of LIRZ


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Aerial view of LIAF
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Re: Upgrading Perugia LIRZ Airport

Postby FlyingGriffin » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:33 am

Hello @gooneybird,
I wanted to test your groundnet file and I copied it into Airports/L/I/R of my custom scenery folder, replacing the old one.
I then started FlightGear, located to LIRZ airport, of course, and waited about 30 minutes in order to see whether any AI traffic could show up. I did not see any plane in the area, no AI take offs or landings.
Is anything I need to do in order to activate the AI traffic in LIRZ or I simply need to copy the groundnet file and I am done?

Thank you.
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Re: Upgrading Perugia LIRZ Airport

Postby gooneybird » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:11 am

There's very little traffic there at the moment but if you set the time to 09:25 UTC at start up there should be a Ryanair 738 parked that will leave at 09:30.

Be aware though, due to the numerous bugs in the AI system that although the groundnet is correct the AI sometimes do strange things and that seems to be happening here. :?
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Re: Upgrading Perugia LIRZ Airport

Postby FlyingGriffin » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:36 am

Yes!!! This is fabulous!
I did not realize FlightGear is using the real schedule of the airport for its AI traffic. I supposed it was created with a more or less random logic. I was thinking about private and charter flights, for example, which I think they are created in a different way (in case they are created by AI) as there is no public schedule for them.
I however have seen the Ryanair plane (FR4953 flight) leaving for London at ~ 09:30 UTC. Simply amazing!
As for your final comment, do you mean "strange things" are likely to happen in LIRZ or in any airport because of the AI bugs?
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Re: Upgrading Perugia LIRZ Airport

Postby gooneybird » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:26 pm

All commercial traffic is based on real schedules, I did Ryanair a couple of years ago so it's probably out of date now.

Any local or general aviation traffic you have to create yourself, have a look at the local traffic file for Lelystad (EHLE) in \data\AI\Traffic\misc\WooningAviation.xml, that should give you an idea how to do it.

As for your final comment, do you mean "strange things" are likely to happen in LIRZ or in any airport because of the AI bugs?


Any airport. There were some changes made to the AI system several years ago that seems to have created more bugs that it cured. You may see AI aircraft dancing around, stopping on the taxiway or runway, taxiing across the airport directly to the runway and even pushing back across the countryside!
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Re: Upgrading Perugia LIRZ Airport

Postby FlyingGriffin » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:01 pm

gooneybird wrote in Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:26 pm:All commercial traffic is based on real schedules, I did Ryanair a couple of years ago so it's probably out of date now.

Any local or general aviation traffic you have to create yourself, have a look at the local traffic file for Lelystad (EHLE) in \data\AI\Traffic\misc\WooningAviation.xml, that should give you an idea how to do it.


Thank you for your time and for clarifying this up. AI in FlightGear is all new to me. I saw LIRZ schedule in data/AI/Traffic is quite outdated and incomplete: it only includes some Ryanair and Wizz flights. I do not know whether this schedule can be updated and included in some custom folder or it needs to be part of the official FlightGear data pack?

Any airport. There were some changes made to the AI system several years ago that seems to have created more bugs that it cured. You may see AI aircraft dancing around, stopping on the taxiway or runway, taxiing across the airport directly to the runway and even pushing back across the countryside!


Too bad to know. This also explains why I sometimes see planes taxiing in grass and outside taxiways, not to mention doing strange things during take offs and landings.
Do you know whether the AI is managing, in some way, private or charter traffic, maybe creating it according to some random logic?

Thank you for your time and support.
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Re: Upgrading Perugia LIRZ Airport

Postby wkitty42 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:34 pm

gooneybird wrote in Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:26 pm:Any local or general aviation traffic you have to create yourself, have a look at the local traffic file for Lelystad (EHLE) in \data\AI\Traffic\misc\WooningAviation.xml, that should give you an idea how to do it.

that's the one i started with for local and GA traffic at KRDU... i even started with those craft and added some duplicates with slightly new liveries and callsigns... i forget my schedule but there is generally a craft leaving and landing at like 5 or 10 minute intervals... the AI bugs for GA traffic are obvious on the smaller piston powered craft... the jet ones i've added are OK... each flight is only like an hour or two so these guys are moving all the time :)
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Upgrading Perugia LIRZ Airport

Postby wkitty42 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:41 pm

FlyingGriffin wrote in Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:01 pm:Too bad to know. This also explains why I sometimes see planes taxiing in grass and outside taxiways, not to mention doing strange things during take offs and landings.
Do you know whether the AI is managing, in some way, private or charter traffic, maybe creating it according to some random logic?

the AI Traffic Manager does all the work for the AI... it loads all the schedules, generates the flight plans for qualified craft (those within 200nm IIRC), and sets the craft loose to follow that FP... not all properties of the AI craft are taken into account yet... smaller GA craft just don't fly as fast or ascend/descend like jet powered craft do... the traffic manager hasn't been updated to handle more of these properties and handle GA craft better but that is something i've been looking into... sadly my time and attention have been other places since a personal family tragedy back in Aug 2018... i do plan to get back to it but don't mind at all if someone else jumps in first... i'm still relearning C/C++ again and have added prolific logging to the AI code so i can try to learn its flow...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Upgrading Perugia LIRZ Airport

Postby FlyingGriffin » Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:00 pm

wkitty42 wrote in Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:41 pm:the AI Traffic Manager does all the work for the AI... it loads all the schedules, generates the flight plans for qualified craft (those within 200nm IIRC), and sets the craft loose to follow that FP... not all properties of the AI craft are taken into account yet... smaller GA craft just don't fly as fast or ascend/descend like jet powered craft do... the traffic manager hasn't been updated to handle more of these properties and handle GA craft better but that is something i've been looking into... sadly my time and attention have been other places since a personal family tragedy back in Aug 2018... i do plan to get back to it but don't mind at all if someone else jumps in first... i'm still relearning C/C++ again and have added prolific logging to the AI code so i can try to learn its flow...


First of all, I am sorry to read about the personal family tragedy, I sincerely wish you all the very best and I hope everything will recover very soon for the best.

As far as I can get it, the traffic manager however does take into account GA although in a limited way, however it is a work in progress, and this is good to know. It is however a very good news to know you are planning to get back to it. I wish I could help but I do not have of course any experience about FlightGear code as I have never took a look at it, even though I am a software designer/developer for more than 35 years experience now and C/C++ are just two of the many programming languages I use and I am proficient with.
I guess I should also understand FlightGear software architecture before trying to add or change its code, just like any other software project.
As far as you know, can the AI be programmed according to some schedule files (I see it uses XML) and located somewhere in the Custom Scenery folder?

Thank you for your time and support.
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Re: Upgrading Perugia LIRZ Airport

Postby FlyingGriffin » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:07 pm

Hello everyone!
I have been very busy lately because of my job so I could not pay much attention to my hobbies, including Flightgear and, of course, this new scenery.
I am currently focusing on the three airfields added by @D-ECHO and I am planning to add buildings/objects very soon. I have also noticed some minor "bugs" in these airfields and I hope @D-ECHO is still interested in this project and will fix it.
I am of course planning to submit my job to this project as soon as I am done with object placement. All I can say now it is a huge pleasure flying from/to LIRZ! :-)

I will post pictures of the new progresses very soon, in the hope the other members of this project are still here listening! :-)

Cheers to all!
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Re: Upgrading Perugia LIRZ Airport

Postby D-ECHO » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:40 pm

Have you already sent me which bugs you mean? Then I can fix ;)
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Re: Upgrading Perugia LIRZ Airport

Postby FlyingGriffin » Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:48 pm

Anyone still interested on this project? Are you still here @D-ECHO ? :-)
I have been very busy with my job and other personal affairs, I had little time for this project, but I would really love to see it progressing. I still have to add buildings and objects to the three airfields.
LIRZ and LIAF are finished and, of course, are available for uploading in the main project three or to anyone who wants to use them.

Cheers and happy flying!
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Re: Upgrading Perugia LIRZ Airport

Postby D-ECHO » Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:26 pm

I'm at the moment quite seldom at my computer, so for the next weeks no updates from me, sorry
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