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Cessna 182S Carb heat

Postby Matuchkin » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:15 am

So I've decided to fly a route from Juneau to Valdez PF, in the middle of winter, with current conditions (pretty horrible if you ask me). Naturally - I am not an actual pilot and didn't quite expect this even though I should have - the plane slowly weakened and lost altitude until it splashed down halfway to Yakutat to my dismay. I suspect this is a problem with the carburetor, but I cannot find a method to heat the carburetor up, no "carb heat" switch as there are with other piston aircraft. Is there a way in which I can heat up my carburetor? If this is not the problem, is there generally a solution to the loss of power or should I just not fly this thing in cold conditions?
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Re: Cessna 182S Carb heat

Postby Matuchkin » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:47 pm

Edit: tried to educate myself on oil, CHT, EGT, etc management, as I should have. Still proving difficult, though that may simply be due to my lack of usage experience of the oil mixture, throttle, cowl controls, et al. The winter kit proved useful, and I should have remembered its existence before writing the original post.

I'm wondering if there is any advice that can be given with the 182S in this case.
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Re: Cessna 182S Carb heat

Postby tdammers » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:41 pm

One more thing to worry about would be icing.

In models that simulate it, propeller icing will lead to a loss of effective power (but no RPM drop); wing icing will lead to a loss of lidft, and increased drag. If you're losing power and dropping out of the sky despite the engine running normally, then this could be it.
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Re: Cessna 182S Carb heat

Postby legoboyvdlp » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:42 pm

I think the c182s simulates this since the last version as far as I know :)
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Re: Cessna 182S Carb heat

Postby Matuchkin » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:57 pm

legoboyvdlp wrote in Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:42 pm:I think the c182s simulates this since the last version as far as I know :)


So how would I prevent this? There can't be a system that heats the propellers, right?
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Re: Cessna 182S Carb heat  

Postby legoboyvdlp » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:08 pm

Unfortunately not - the solution is to exit icing conditions (just like real life!) - not easy in winter :P

As far as I know icing only occurs below zero, maybe if you fly lower it might help.
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Re: Cessna 182S Carb heat

Postby Matuchkin » Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:30 pm

legoboyvdlp wrote in Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:08 pm:Unfortunately not - the solution is to exit icing conditions (just like real life!) - not easy in winter :P

As far as I know icing only occurs below zero, maybe if you fly lower it might help.


Thanks for your help.

While we're at it, do you know how well the 172 simulates temperature? I tried to fly the same route in the default 172, and it came about almost effortlessly.
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Re: Cessna 182S Carb heat

Postby legoboyvdlp » Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:36 pm

Hi,
It doesn't have icing as yet apart from the carb - if you notice engine performance dropping you can add carb heat.
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Re: Cessna 182S Carb heat

Postby wlbragg » Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:02 pm

If you have already formed ice in the carb of the c172p and turn on the carb heat be prepared for a bit of coughing and sputtering as the carb eats the melted ice (water + gas). It will get better as the h2o is removed. Best to use carb heat early on long approaches to avoid ice in the first place.
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Re: Cessna 182S Carb heat

Postby Matuchkin » Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:08 pm

wlbragg wrote in Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:02 pm:If you have already formed ice in the carb of the c172p and turn on the carb heat be prepared for a bit of coughing and sputtering as the carb eats the melted ice (water + gas). It will get better as the h2o is removed. Best to use carb heat early on long approaches to avoid ice in the first place.


But then I see the problem with the previous plane - the 182 - isn't carb heat (and even if it is, there is no carb heat switch). And yet, while the 182's engine loses power, the 172P has an absolute surplus. Are there any numbers on how propeller ice can affect power? My personal experience with the 182 is an almost complete loss: what starts with a mildly weak aircraft ends very quickly in a stall at all positive attitudes and an almost complete loss of all lateral velocity. Would an inefficient aerodynamic change in the propeller blades, caused by ice, completely down the aircraft in minutes?

If there was any heat issue within the engine, the only way I thought I could do anything about it was to periodically partially close the cowling and over-lean the fuel mixture. Of course, the engine burst into smoke within minutes. Rapidly leaning it out and bringing the mixture up to 100% got it running the first time, but the situation usually ended with the engine cutting out.

To give more perspective on my usual flights with the 182 in present Juneau conditions: I usually just made it past the climb to Coghlan Island before losing velocity and plummeting.
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Re: Cessna 182S Carb heat

Postby legoboyvdlp » Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:24 pm

The 182 has a full icing simulation; the c172 o my simulates carb icing for now at least and I think it must be enabled in the options menu of the c172p.
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Re: Cessna 182S Carb heat

Postby wlbragg » Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:28 pm

Are there any numbers on how propeller ice can affect power?


Well, last I looked they are still working on this and it is by no means their final version. I believe their prop ice is not even modeled using the correct approach. they want drag on the prop, not rpm loss and they haven't totally figured out how to do it. They are totally aware of that issue and are working on it to find a solution.

I'm not sure what version your using and unless it is the dev version I don't think you even have the prop icing. As far as what you are experiencing I would venture to guess it is ice on the aircraft wing, which is modeled I believe? The solution is you don't fly in it, there is no fix. There is no deicing equipment (wing) on the 182s.
I'm not sure if they are doing the carb icing or not and if they are I would be surprised there was no carb heat. Unless it is handled differently on a c182s. Also the carb heat does cause a loss in RPM.

The 172p doesn't model the wing ice yet so that is why you can fly it in the no-fly conditions.

EDIT. after I saw @ legoboyvdlp last post...

@legoboyvdlp does the fgaddon version do the prop icing? Is there a carb heat on the c182s?
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Re: Cessna 182S Carb heat

Postby wlbragg » Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:11 pm

In answer to my own question from the developers.

the c182s and all other single piston engine cessnas built after 1996 uses fuel-injected engines. They don't need carb...


So I would say at the least, your in no fly icing conditions regardless of whether it is the wing or prop. At least you can change the weather. :mrgreen:
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Re: Cessna 182S Carb heat

Postby Matuchkin » Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:46 pm

wlbragg wrote in Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:11 pm:In answer to my own question from the developers.

the c182s and all other single piston engine cessnas built after 1996 uses fuel-injected engines. They don't need carb...


So I would say at the least, your in no fly icing conditions regardless of whether it is the wing or prop. At least you can change the weather. :mrgreen:


Hah, thanks. I guess I should I know when and when not I should fly. A quick google later, and everything seems to coincide - there is no carb heat because of your quote on post-1996 Cessna models, and wing ice indeed causes aircraft to stall (damn, you'd think that a thin ice addition to the front of an airfoil wouldn't just demolish all lift).
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Re: Cessna 182S Carb heat

Postby wlbragg » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:25 pm

Yeah, they de-iced a 737 I was on last week out of Wichita. Only the outer half had a bit if "dew" ice on it. I was kind of surprised they did it for so little ice.

Once we get the wing icing done for the 172p you won't be able to cheat in it either!
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