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Space Shuttle Setup

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Re: Space Shuttle Setup

Postby Thorsten » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:06 am

I've attempted to put the lat/lon data in the "additional command line arguments" portion of the "Settings" tab, but this does bupkis. I suspect because a location is quite plainly shown in the location tab.


Try typing (or copying)

Code: Select all
--lat=28.6206
--lon=-80.6133
--heading=270


into the additional command line arguments box - that (including the -- if you leave them out it won't work ) is command line syntax and should work and override all other settings made elsewhere (if it does not, that'd be a launcher bug, because that is the agreed-upon behavior).

Again, I would refer you to the Manual which explains what things to type there to get what particular config
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Re: Space Shuttle Setup

Postby legoboyvdlp » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:14 am

I think I now see what's going on - the version of the launcher shown is a bit older. It lacks for instance, the prompt below the search box clarifying how exactly to enter latitude / longitude.
Image
Once 2018.3 is released in a couple of days it should be sorted :) - meanwhile, does entering those commandline options solve it?
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Re: Space Shuttle Setup

Postby slaintemaith » Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:13 pm

Trying now.
Eh. I'm going to go with 'Nope.'

Image

That's the shuttle resting on the pad. 10000 feet up. In Honolulu.

Is there no way to save a scenario with this? You know. Shuttle at 'x' coordinates on such and such a date with 'y' weather?
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Re: Space Shuttle Setup

Postby legoboyvdlp » Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:43 pm

Ok - I'm going to post a screenshot: make sure you enter it precisely like this:

Image
Hit enter
Image

Your launcher probably looks slightly different unless you are running the release candidate, but make sure the altitude setting is disabled and make sure the heading is 270.
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Re: Space Shuttle Setup

Postby slaintemaith » Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:44 pm

My version doesn't have any of those options. "Location" is really "Search" and any attempt to put anything other than a search results in nothing being changed.
How did this even work with the current release version?!?! (That being the one I have)

*Note: I did finally manage to leave Honolulu. Only now I'm 10000 feet in the air over the Cape Canaveral Skid Strip.
I guess I can call that a marginal success? Progress is being made?
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Re: Space Shuttle Setup

Postby Thorsten » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:33 pm

This'd be much easier if you'd read what we write (the salient point is here:)

What happens if you start paused, wait till you can see the Shuttle (float in mid-air, it's parked there till the pad is placed...) and then un-pause?

follow instructions to the letter - and tell us the details of what you did to solve a part and what you're still doing.

If you persist in not following instructions, then you'll have to work it out on your own - I can't do mind-control on your computer.
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Re: Space Shuttle Setup

Postby slaintemaith » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:39 pm

Are you joking? How can I follow your instructions to the letter when you're using a pre-release and I'm using release and the SAME BLOODY INFO BOXES AREN'T THERE?!
I've been starting paused all along. I've mentioned the shuttle sits stock still now. Just 10000 feet in the air. Perhaps you should read MY posts?

Nevermind. I'm 99.9999999999999% certain that even assuming this does get set up that it will break early and often upon use.

It's simply not worth it.

Thanks for your attempts to help.
Goodbye.
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Re: Space Shuttle Setup

Postby legoboyvdlp » Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:05 pm

It's a pity you couldn't wait three more days which is when the next release is expected unless some major bug is found - regardless, even though those infoboxes are not there in the release launcher there is a box in nearly the same location that does the exact same function of selecting heading. It also looks like you managed to find it as well...

I think the issue you are having is that you specified at some point to start at 10000 feet, so it's leaving you there - not on the pad.

So, just remove the altitude option (which is why you are starting at 10000 feet) and it should work.
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Re: Space Shuttle Setup

Postby Thorsten » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:26 pm

I've been starting paused all along. I've mentioned the shuttle sits stock still now. Just 10000 feet in the air. Perhaps you should read MY posts?


Well, that's to be expected if you start paused - things sit still. Now, once you unpause, the scripts start running again, and just maybe they take care of the pad placement - who knows? (At least they're supposed to do that...)

How can I follow your instructions to the letter when you're using a pre-release and I'm using release and the SAME BLOODY INFO BOXES AREN'T THERE?!


Actually, typing the commandline instructions into the box works back in 2017.3 (and even further back) because it is a very basic low-level feature - which is what I'm using for the Shuttle because the RC had a rather critical bug and I haven't had the time to update.

Which, incidentially, is why I suggested it here and described it like this in the manual - because it is a robust low-level feature not dependent on the FG version.

Nevermind. I'm 99.9999999999999% certain that even assuming this does get set up that it will break early and often upon use.


Seems to work fine for nearly everyone but you...

Please don't try to make me a target of your bad mood - this is GPL software, released in the hope that it may be useful to you, working fine for many other people, and I try to help you in the hope that this may be useful to you - but if not, then... just not. But please don't blame anyone else but yourself here.

I frankly don't overly care whether you try what I suggest or not - I have a working Shuttle after all.
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Re: Space Shuttle Setup

Postby wlbragg » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:18 pm

How did this even work with the current release version?!?! (That being the one I have)

Because it does work!

"Location" is really "Search" and any attempt to put anything other than a search results in nothing being changed.

You have to select the location before you see anything you can input an altitude into. There is a flow to the GUI selections that isn't always obvious.
Last edited by wlbragg on Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kansas(2-27-15)/Ohio/Midwest scenery development.
KEQA (2-27-15), 3AU, KRCP Airport Layout
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Re: Space Shuttle Setup

Postby wlbragg » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:38 pm

I went back and read this thread from the start, I took some of the post out of context, so please disregard my location comments, they are partially correct, with the exception you can input lat, lon in the search bar to get the correct positioning and subsequently see an altitude input field.

If you were able to get this loaded correctly at Honolulu, why not input an ICAO code somewhere in Florida near the correct facility. I know I have used airports in the area that were sufficient to launch and achieve orbit.

EDIT: try KXMR
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Re: Space Shuttle Setup

Postby Thorsten » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:45 am

@everyone else:

Since there seem to be misconceptions floating around how things work which complicate the troubleshooting process, I'll explain this in a bit of detail.

When placing the Shuttle in launch position at an arbitrary location, we have to deal with two things

a) FG assumes a craft on the ground has gear out and rests on its gear
b) by the time FG wants to place the craft on the ground, no Nasal is active and hence we can not place any pad on the ground

Any craft in FG with similar needs has to hack around these things (Vostok-1 for instance introduces a weird coordinate system in which 'forward' really is 'down' - which places the Euler singularity into an awkward position in orbit - the F-14b for a carrier start really probes the terrain with a loop whether the carrier is already there and then repositions onto the flightdeck).

For the Shuttle, we address a) by deploying gear in the FDM while on the pad and automatically retracting it after liftoff - this is not visible because the logic for the gear animation is done differently). If we would *not* do this, we'd have weird ground interactions.

Point b) we address by placing the Shuttle 10.000 ft high in the air. On a normal init some time passes and it falls, but eventually Nasal becomes available and issues a command to place a pad. Some more time passes, and the init script then issues a placement command to let the Shuttle appear with all velocity nulled right above the pad, it falls into a tripod (we want it to stand, on two points it's precarious, so we cheat) of contact points which have a high damping, so oscillations cease quickly and we stand on the pad.

If we would *not* init in the air, the Shuttle would start staying on the ground, the pad would be placed on the ground around us, so we'd be *inside* the pad, which not only looks odd but gives a devastating kick once the contact points move *above* the pad surface and the ground interaction code triggers.

Normally, that's about when the splash screen fades, there may be some small residual oscillations from the drop onto the pad or not., but we're in vertical position with a launch pad underneath.

What can potentially go wrong with this is

a) there may be another object on the ground/nearby which gives a ground interaction when the Shuttle is placed on the pad - this can topple the stack.

b) there may be so much in the scenery loading queue that the command to place the pad into the scenery has been issued, but not yet executed by the time we reposition, so pad placement and Shuttle reposition overlap - this can either place us in the pad, or also topple the steck - theoretically this should be fixable by starting paused (to give the queue time to finish and the pad time to appear) and then unpause (or by changing the delay variable). This however is conjectured, as I've never seen this happen on any of my three setups that can run the Shuttle.

c) the procedure is complicated, so there may be some other timing issue not yet found - for which someone who experiences the issue would need to run tests

But one upshot is - if you start paused and find the Shuttle floating in mid-air when the splash fades, this is completely normal - that is how this needs to be. On the other hand, putting in an altitude into the commandline probably overrides the altitude setting made by the *-set.xml file and can potentially de-rail the whole procedure. So can trying to put the pad onto sloped ground I suspect (?) - though I've never tried.


@slaintemaith

Nevermind. I'm 99.9999999999999% certain that even assuming this does get set up that it will break early and often upon use.


After sleeping it over, I agree with you - given your way of dealing with information given to you, it is unlikely you'd enjoy the simulation very much - it really requires you to read lots of manuals thoroughly, and if that doesn't happen, it will continue to break for not being operated correctly - and all that breakage is actually simulated.
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