Ok, I summarize my so far learnings in this forum:
* The responsible people in this forum do not care if a member feels harassed.
* It is perfectly ok if somebody clearly states that s/he does not care about politeness.
* If somebody opens a topic and other people go totally off topic, then it is the owner of the topic to back off and let all the others discuss the off topic stuff. I truly wonder why this is then named "topic" but well, what do I know. It seems I just have to accept the FG forum logic.
Now, I guess to most people who will read this, it is clear that I do not want Thorsten or bugman to comment to what I write here. But at least Thorsten proves to be very courageous and not giving up to still comment about me and what I write. Please understand that I will ignore whatever Thorsten or bugman write in this topic.
For those who are STILL interested in the Bell 412 case, why I defended Valery so heavily, why I still do that and why I still think that the way relevant people dealt with this case was utterly wrong, I try to explain my view on this issue.
1) Some of you people have found clear evidence that Valery used material from a Bell 412 model from a company called CeraSim. In my opinion this is good and right and if I could, I would support this kind of action.
2) At this point some people already started to treat Valery as a criminal and several times he was explicitly called "thief". I disapprove of that heavily! Even though I am not an expert, I dare to state that in all modern civilized countries, a person is only then called a criminal after a judge has adjudged that person. Adjudging a person is normally only done after a lawsuit. There has not been a lawsuit.
3) The evidence the relevant people found against Valery have only shown that the models from CeraSim and Valery have -to say the least- the same basis, possibly are even 1:1 the same. At the beginning of all this it was not clear who copied from whom, whether or not CeraSim has created this model themselves or where it is from. Also it was not clear where Valery got his model from. Nobody was able to exclude the possibility that both had their models from an open source source. There was no statement from CeraSim even though -if I understood this correctly- Curt did contact and inform them. For how long CeraSim had not reacted, I do not know. Would be interesting to know.
4) Some of you started to demand from Valery to prove that this model is his. Valery refused to do so. Then many of you concluded that he must be a criminal. I heavily disapprove also of this conclusion. If some of you lack the imagination to think of reasons why somebody will not start to prove himself, I understand that. I can think of some reasons. Nevertheless that seems irrelevant to me since my understanding of a modern civilized world is that in order to call somebody a criminal, a prosecutor has -with the help of the police- to prove that the person has done wrong and, as mentioned above, a judge then adjudges the person. It is not the task of the accused to prove that he is not guilty! In Germany an accused has the good RIGHT to keep his mouth shut. I do not know how this is handled in other countries though.
It is the right of the FG forum to then say, for YOU it is not acceptable that Valery does not explain himself. It is also ok to ban him from the repository and even the forum itself. But it is not ok to call him criminal or thief at this point in time. It's just not. Also, as I have expressed many times now, I strongly believe that you CAN ban somebody in a calm, polite and respectful way and I strongly feel that you should.
5) So now we DO have a statement from CeraSim. Some of you are now celebrating and might even expect me to admit that I was wrong. I clearly state that I do not at all think that I was or am wrong.
5.1) I feel that I was certainly not wrong on disapproving all the harassment against Valery in the early stage of all this. In my opinion some of you simply prejudged Valery. Prejudging is prejudging and stays prejudging even IF later on it turns out that the accused really is guilty. For me harassing somebody without a fair trial in an official court is kind of a psychological lynch law. But that is only my feeling.
5.2) I still refuse to see Valery as a criminal. Before personally condemning Varlery I would like to wait the END of all of this. I do not know what exactly is in the statement the Curt received from CeraSim. "It is their own model" might still mean that they used a model from some other source and only modified that. I am not native English so I might be totally wrong here, but I think "It is my own model" is not necessarily the same as "We created this model from scratch.". Now, let's assume the worst case and CeraSim HAS indeed created this model from scratch. I see the possibility that Valery had already contacted them long ago but he does not bother to say in this forum. Even if not, if they say that for them it is ok that Valrey has taken it, then -as far as I understand at least German law- there is no case against Valery. There will be no trial and no judge adjudging him. Why would he then be a criminal or thief? He would not be for me. And as a matter of fact, he IS still no criminal in my eyes because -as already described- in my world you should not call a person a criminal until after a trial and after her having been adjudged.
I truly understand that many of you so heavily dislike that Valery has taken some model from somebody else in the way he did, that you THINK "What a bloody thief.". I do not judge on that, I even understand that. But thinking this is not comparable to writing this in a public forum.
I hope my not so perfect English hasn't caused me to write misunderstandable things. Also I hope to not have offended anybody, if so then please let me know.