Board index FlightGear Support Hardware

Heli Kit. Pedals not recognised.

Joysticks, pedals, monitors.

Re: Heli Kit. Pedals not recognised.

Postby AndersG » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:48 am

If you can you could try with Linux - there FG supports the (USB) event interface in addition to the older joystick interface (which PLIB uses on Linux).
Adding support for DirectInput to FG would need an interested volunteer developing on Windows to step up.

Special hardware that comes with its own special drivers will always be difficult to support (and in particular across different operating systems). One could hope that it is using a standard USB communication setup under the hood.
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Re: Heli Kit. Pedals not recognised.

Postby Richard » Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:23 pm

StuartC wrote in Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:03 am:Well if FG boast its able to support any hardware, which it now clearly doesn't, it needs to be tried.


keep yer heid; I can see you feel let down; but firstly I don't believe that FG does boast that it's able to support "any hardware" and the manufacturer should specify that this device *requires* DirectInput on windows (if indeed it does) - did you ask their support about this?

Secondly adding DirectInput (joystick) support to FG is something that I've been looking at adding since we discovered the problem; not sure if I'll get something ready for 2018.1 but it is underway.

I've got a standalone program; can you run this and report back the results: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3kzg97076p2p7 ... 1.exe?dl=0
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Re: Heli Kit. Pedals not recognised.

Postby StuartC » Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:38 pm

They had never Heard of Flight Gear before I contacted them. I have emailed them about the Direct input requirement.

Your little exe produces this:-

Richard's DirectInpu8t jostick test.
found HELI-KIT (HELI-KIT)
axes found Slider (0)
axes found Dial (0)
axes found Y Rotation (0)
axes found X Rotation (0)
axes found Z Axis (0)
axes found Y Axis (0)
axes found X Axis (0)
Ax: ( 0, 0, 0) RAx: ( 0, 0, 0) Slider: ( 0, 0) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
Ax: ( 0,-359, 989) RAx: (-614, 918, 0) Slider: ( -23, 44) nPov: ( -1, -1, -1, -1)
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Re: Heli Kit. Pedals not recognised.

Postby Richard » Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:49 pm

That's good - as it means I've got some code that is working; providing that it detects movement of all of the axes.

So, does it detect movement of the pedals or just always display the same thing when wobbling the various appendages.
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Re: Heli Kit. Pedals not recognised.

Postby StuartC » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:16 pm

As its constantly scrolling its hard to pin down, but the figures change with every axes, including the pedals.
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Re: Heli Kit. Pedals not recognised.

Postby Richard » Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:32 am

You might be able to get this to work in the interim.

https://www.xedocproject.com/joystickcurves.html

Basically it bridges between the actual joystick and virtual joysticks; so you should be able to setup your pedals on a different device. It claims to use DirectX so it should work with all of the axes that you have.

I've got a plan for adding DirectInput support - but it'll be 2018.2 at the earliest.
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Re: Heli Kit. Pedals not recognised.

Postby StuartC » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:39 am

I had already spent a day with vjoy and varius joystick reassign plugis, which none worked. This one did show promise, as it has enough axes to assign everything, but even after that, the pedals are still being ignored in FG, no matter what axes I assign them to.
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Re: Heli Kit. Pedals not recognised.

Postby StuartC » Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:33 pm

Edit.

Infact If I assign an axes to anything other than the same axes in vjoy, it doesn't work at all.
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Re: Heli Kit. Pedals not recognised.

Postby StuartC » Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:16 pm

Further experiments show FG refuses to actually load or create a joystick profile for a vjoy device.
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Re: Heli Kit. Pedals not recognised.

Postby StuartC » Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:42 pm

Purged all devices and started again.
Used Richards suggested tool to map the HeliKit to the equivalent Vjoy axes. Confirmmed through windows that the Vjoy axes were all responding to input, including the pedals.

Run up PG, selected the vjoy device, checked it created an XML, and it did. in FG All axes except the pedals on vjoy were being recognised.
Looking at the generated xml, aileron was axes 0 in the generated vjoy xml, so I used the assignment tool to assign the yaw output from the Helikit to the aileron axes in vjoy, thus this should make the pedals axes 0 for ailerons in the vjoy config.
Ran up FG to check, no output from axes 0 at all while assigned to the previously working aileron output.

Conclusion.
I have no idea whats going on or going wrong.
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Re: Heli Kit. Pedals not recognised.

Postby StuartC » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:50 pm

An update on this.

in a spat of frustration, I took the thing apart. Thinking that I may be able to rewire the pedals to another axis that I could live without. Discovered the PCB had 4 unused connections, so I moved the pedal connector to an unused one, its now recognised as Z rotation, not Y rotation, and everything works fully with FG.
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Re: Heli Kit. Pedals not recognised.

Postby Johan G » Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:38 am

Nice to hear that. Have fun, and many soft landings. :D
Low-level flying — It's all fun and games till someone looses an engine. (Paraphrased from a YouTube video)
Improving the Dassault Mirage F1 (Wiki, Forum, GitLab. Work in slow progress)
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Re: Heli Kit. Pedals not recognised.

Postby Richard » Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:47 pm

StuartC wrote in Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:50 pm:Discovered the PCB had 4 unused connections, so I moved the pedal connector to an unused one, its now recognised as Z rotation, not Y rotation, and everything works fully with FG.


That's great news; you would have though that their technical support folks could have thought of this one.

The whole subject of input is currently something that I'm looking at; it may well be that we end up migrating the plib code to DirectX, or via direct support for USB HID (James has been working on this and there is some core support for this). However don't expect anything soon; this could take a long time.
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Re: Heli Kit. Pedals not recognised.

Postby StuartC » Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:49 pm

Actually, although everything appears to work, its not quite.
The only axis that has changed assignment is the pedals Y to Z rotation, nothing else was touched, but as a result, the Hat is only partly functional now.
The hat has 2 axis - Slider1 + Dial1. The Dial1 is now not recognised by FG, although I can verify it still works on the Windows Stick calibration tool.
It would appear FG is only recognising the first 5 active axis in sequence. Y rotation was axis7 ( and not recognised) The Dial was axis 6. Now z Rotation is axis 3 and active, Dial1 / axis 6 is no longer recognised.

Still, the main bits I need to fly are functional, and yes it makes a hell of a difference to choppers.
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Re: Heli Kit. Pedals not recognised.

Postby Johan G » Sat May 19, 2018 11:03 am

Richard wrote in Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:47 pm:[...] direct support for USB HID [...]

That would be great to have even if it took half a decade to get there. :D
Low-level flying — It's all fun and games till someone looses an engine. (Paraphrased from a YouTube video)
Improving the Dassault Mirage F1 (Wiki, Forum, GitLab. Work in slow progress)
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