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Rallye MS-893 in development

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Re: Rallye MS-893 in development

Postby Hooray » Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:08 am

HHS wrote:I posted some pics of that airctaft on a swiss-aiation forum, and the first question was: "Where you got from this Aircaft if it is for FSX?"

I agree, it really looks absolutely impressive - I was also surprised, knowing that this is indeed FlightGear.
I was also very much surprised when I saw your screenshots of the ec135 in the other thread, which look equally impressive to me!

WooT wrote:Also, when I saw your images, I instantly thought about the little mirror that is above the canopy. It would be really cool to have it made into some pure mirror, and include a "look at mirror" view , so that you can look at the glider behind us ! Do you think it can be done ? Will it work through the canopy, which also has reflective effect ?


This would require support in FlightGear to dynamically create textures, textures that are based on additional camera views - i.e. a texture that is created based on a configurable camera position and viewpoint. This is natively supported by OSG, but as far as I know not yet exposed as a native texture layer in FlightGear.
This would also come in handy for other purposes, quoting from the wiki:
Allow arbitrary custom views to be rendered to a texture, so that the created texture can be used to create instruments that feature some sort of "outside view", i.e. an advanced HUD or the external view of an A340 (camera mounted on the tail), this would enable us to show external views on an instrument in the cockpit panel. We only need something that allows us to define a custom instrument layer type that gets its contents from a specific user defined (or global) view.


I think, in this specific case, the camera viewpoint used for the mirror texture would need to be exposed to the property tree so that it can be bound to the viewpoint of the pilot, ensuring that the mirror view also adjust accordingly - so that the center of the mirror viewpoint would be dependent on the pilot's viewpoint in relation to the mirror.
Please don't send support requests by PM, instead post your questions on the forum so that all users can contribute and benefit
Thanks & all the best,
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Re: Rallye MS-893 in development

Postby HHS » Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:40 pm

Hooray wrote:
HHS wrote:I posted some pics of that airctaft on a swiss-aiation forum, and the first question was: "Where you got from this Aircaft if it is for FSX?"

I agree, it really looks absolutely impressive - I was also surprised, knowing that this is indeed FlightGear.
I was also very much surprised when I saw your screenshots of the ec135 in the other thread, which look equally impressive to me!

WooT wrote:Also, when I saw your images, I instantly thought about the little mirror that is above the canopy. It would be really cool to have it made into some pure mirror, and include a "look at mirror" view , so that you can look at the glider behind us ! Do you think it can be done ? Will it work through the canopy, which also has reflective effect ?


This would require support in FlightGear to dynamically create textures, textures that are based on additional camera views - i.e. a texture that is created based on a configurable camera position and viewpoint. This is natively supported by OSG, but as far as I know not yet exposed as a native texture layer in FlightGear.
This would also come in handy for other purposes, quoting from the wiki:
Allow arbitrary custom views to be rendered to a texture, so that the created texture can be used to create instruments that feature some sort of "outside view", i.e. an advanced HUD or the external view of an A340 (camera mounted on the tail), this would enable us to show external views on an instrument in the cockpit panel. We only need something that allows us to define a custom instrument layer type that gets its contents from a specific user defined (or global) view.


I think, in this specific case, the camera viewpoint used for the mirror texture would need to be exposed to the property tree so that it can be bound to the viewpoint of the pilot, ensuring that the mirror view also adjust accordingly - so that the center of the mirror viewpoint would be dependent on the pilot's viewpoint in relation to the mirror.


Yep, indeed the roght thoughts about this!

WooT just told me, that will delete the interior reflections, because in many certain situations it looks wrong. And, yes, for a real looking reflection we would need dynamically generated textures, but this is not (yet?) possible in FGFS, though OSG would allow it. Problem: it needs fps, like I can see on an other game which uses this technic (www.racer.nl). By the way: MSFS uses a similar technic I used here.

But I hope it shows how you can achieve nice effects so I hope we can attract more developers to join!

Cheers
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Re: Rallye MS-893 in development

Postby Hooray » Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:43 pm

HHS wrote:WooT just told me, that will delete the interior reflections, because in many certain situations it looks wrong.

Maybe there's another possibility to keep them: if it could be made possible to dynamically enable and disable them, one could provide a property to toggle these hardcoded reflections on/off in FlightGear, so that users could decide themselves if they want to try them using the rendering dialog, or maybe using a custom aircraft-specific "effects" dialog ?

Also, having such a toggle property would even allow for a Nasal script to optionally try to guess when these effects may look good, according to environmental factors such as active view, pilot viewpoint, field of view, daytime and relative angle of the sun (maybe in conjunction with aircraft altitude and information about relevant cloud layers and precipitation-weather), so that a Nasal script may optionally enable this effect dynamically under certain circumstances (if the user enables this).

So that aircraft developers could define valid circumstances for which the effect is to be shown, and the Nasal script could register a listener to determine if it's daytime, if there are no overcast clouds above the aircraft's current altitude, if the active view, field of view, viewpoint and sun's position match the conditions to enable the effect.
Please don't send support requests by PM, instead post your questions on the forum so that all users can contribute and benefit
Thanks & all the best,
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Re: Rallye MS-893 in development

Postby HHS » Sat Apr 04, 2009 3:42 pm

I thought about toggling this feature as well, but it is WooT's decision to do it or not!
It was just a contribution from side, and I was aware of that he probably won't like it.

That's o.k. for me, then we know all: " we want to make things make right!" http://www.flightgear.org/introduction.html

A solution with nasal is bad- Tim Moore is working on shader support for FGFS, and help him is a better way than a bad complicated nasal code which still is not able to simulate realistic reflection in the way we want!
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Problems with sound of engine @rallye ms-893E

Postby jaques.flightgear » Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:36 pm

Hi WooT,

as I told you during chat session today I have problems with the output of the engine sound of your wonderfully modeled aircraft.
Using the original files from cvs I get the error

OpenAL error (AL_INVALID_VALUE): bind_source (alGenSources)
Failed to generate audio source.

in the dos box. This only happens for the engine sound. The sound of air during flight or the sound of rolling on the runway is audible. I tried to find out wether this is a problem of the soundfile:

I copied another soundfile of an aircraft where I'm able to hear the engine accordingly at the place of the original sound file of the rallye. I got the same eroro, too. So it is not an error of the sound file.

Another effect I could find out: Directly after launching fg with the rallye for maybe one second after the aircraft appears on the screen the sound is audible. Next second -> error.

I use xp with

OpenAL32.dll version 6.14.357.22
wrap_oal.dll version 2.1.8.1

Btw I get a very similar error with the grob g115 aircraft.

What can be done? Thanks for your help.

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Re: Rallye MS-893 in development

Postby someguy » Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:12 am

FWIW, the sound is fine for me; Mac FG 1.9.1. Really fine job on this model, WooT!

Are you planning to implement prop pitch? Or is the blue lever for the oil slick? :)
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Re: Rallye MS-893 in development

Postby WooT » Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:07 am

the blue lever should be the carb heat - its not connected to anything now.
There is room for the prop pitch lever, just between throttle and mixture, but I did not model it yet. I started with the easy version, fixed pitch :) That will follow some time !

Jaques, I did replace one of the sound files that had a different sample rate, obviously it was not the culpript. Maybe try to get the latest openAL ? I'm really not sure what to say, I don't know about XP. hopeully the answer will come from the other thread you told me about !

About the reflections shaders. I have been first very impressed by the look and feel it gives, but in the end I thought, that its really not good to see cumulus or blue sky in the reflections, when outside is flat grey or cirrus or orange dawn. The question is : do we want it to look neat, or to look right ? After some thinking, I choosed the 'right' version - even if no reflections at all doesn't look right either. I have been looking a bit into OSG and reflections, but this is far beyond my skills. Like you said HHS, building a complex scripted thing to adapt the current method to different weather scenarios, would not be an answer I think, heavy and tricky. Maybe we have better wait for a c++ genius to appear and get us magic reflexions ? OpenGL has all that is needed - the blender game engine knows how to make real time mirrors, by rendereing a camera to a texture. We are just missing the brain !
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Re: Rallye MS-893 in development

Postby someguy » Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:42 am

Is it just me, or is the rudder trim a bit off (to the right)?

Anyway, what a sweet little plane! The devil made me land it on the hangar roof at KSFO, but the board won't let me upload the screenie.
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Re: Rallye MS-893 in development

Postby MyName » Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:26 am

someguy wrote:Is it just me, or is the rudder trim a bit off (to the right)?

Anyway, what a sweet little plane! The devil made me land it on the hangar roof at KSFO, but the board won't let me upload the screenie.

I think that is prop torque.
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Re: Rallye MS-893 in development

Postby Flightgearex » Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:57 am

Where can I download it ???
VISIT THE GERMAN FG-FORUM -> forum.flightgear-de.net !!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Rallye MS-893 in development

Postby Gijs » Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:28 am

Airports: EHAM, EHLE, KSFO
Aircraft: 747-400
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