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Next-generation scenery generating?

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Re: Next-generation scenery generating?

Postby psadro_gm » Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:05 pm

I originally planned ws3 to use cgal mesh simplification to create lower lod of normal fg mesh. I've spent more than a year converting terragear to use exact math. I still get some errors. It's also extremely slow.

I will get back to it if these experiments don't pan out well.

Today I completed my elevation tests. No shader, and low res texture. Highest dem resolution was 128x128 vertices per tile. This is close to native srtm3 resolution. Never went below 60 fps on my PC. I can go from space to ground.

I'll try to get a YouTube video of it this week.

Pete
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Re: Next-generation scenery generating?

Postby Avionyx » Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:38 am

Pete,

Really exciting stuff to read. Scenery is something that I'd love to be able to contribute to but have failed so far, is there something that the less than talented masses on here could be doing to assist you in your very worthy cause?

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Re: Next-generation scenery generating?

Postby D-ECHO » Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:41 am

Are you more interested in objects or terrain?
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Re: Next-generation scenery generating?

Postby Avionyx » Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:32 pm

Terrain primarily.
I've previously been very interested in finding a way to improve the coastlines within FlightGear as the ones near areas I regularly fly could do with some refinement, but have so far failed miserably at getting anything workable out of TerraGear.

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Re: Next-generation scenery generating?

Postby pommesschranke » Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:44 pm

I did have some success with OSM coastlines.
And I like NickR's scripts to run Terragear:

https://gitlab.com/fg-scenery-build-scr ... ree/master
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Re: Next-generation scenery generating?

Postby psadro_gm » Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:39 pm

Currently, I am focusing on the terrain mesh. This is just the 3d aspect of the landmass. Coastlines, and landuse will be the next step. Remember - this will be a regular mesh, with landclass encoded in a raster. It will be interesting to see what we can come up with.

I considered requesting a merge request in the current state. It is working well enough, but the overall visual impression is not good. I have not computed normals, yet. All normals are pointing straight up.

Instead computing normals the old terragear way, I started looking into possibly faster methods, and will experiment:

1) let OSG do it.
2) similar, but slightly more efficient than terragear here - face normal computer for each face - weighted and summed on each vertex as it is computed - vertex normals are then normalized.
This also allows curvature ( and higher order derivatives ) requested by Thorsten a year or so ago.
http://gfx.cs.princeton.edu/pubs/_2004_ECA/index.php
http://gfx.cs.princeton.edu/gfx/proj/trimesh2/
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Re: Next-generation scenery generating?

Postby bugman » Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:46 am

Peter, to me it seems like you could have a large number of volunteers at your disposal ;) For the coastline, I was wondering if you had a concrete plan for that yet? If this will be auto-generated for each WS release from the OSM coastlines, then people could start improving the coastlines in Open Street Map now for their area of interest. It would be great if we could one day get this system fully automated that we could generate a new WS for each FG release.

Cheers,
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Re: Next-generation scenery generating?

Postby blcjr » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:05 am

D-ECHO wrote in Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:41 am:Are you more interested in objects or terrain?
I would like to see more town textures placed in the vicinity of uncontrolled airports (my particular interest is in Alaska), and at least one or two basic structures at airports. Landing on rectangular patches of green in the middle of nowhere all the time can get boring.

I don't have a clue as to how scenery is built for FG. (I did a lot of scenery back in the day for MSFS, but with commercial tools that were available.) What does it take to apply town textures in any location?

Somewhat related, is there a difference between "urban" textures and "town" textures? I've seen the distinction in messages, but what I've seen in the sim all look the same. Somewhat more of a tangent, if there were a difference between the two, would it be possible to code the "random objects" feature to not populate "town" textures with multiple high-rises? And why can't random structures populate airports? I realize the last two questions are a bit off topic, probably.
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Re: Next-generation scenery generating?

Postby pommesschranke » Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:24 pm

blcjr wrote in Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:05 am:What does it take to apply town textures in any location?


you need the terragear toolchain , elevation data and shapefiles.
Shapefiles you can draw with Qgis or maybe obtain from OpenStreetMap.

And why can't random structures populate airports? I realize the last two questions are a bit off topic, probably.


I would not like random placed objects on airports.
There are 2 better options for auto-generation:
1.) use osm2city to generate buildings from OSM data
2.) I made a program that reads the building footprint from gateway scenery packages(.dsf files) and writes buildings.osm(OpenStreetMap XML) file to be used with osm2city:
https://github.com/mherweg/d-laser-fgto ... 2aptdat.py
Those buildings fit better to Project3000 objects.

test case: Unalakleet. - no village buildings mapped in OSM. So let's try this tool:
https://gitlab.com/vanosten/owbb
OWBB stands for OpenStreetMap Would-Be Buildings. OWBB is a Python 3.x5+ based library to enhance OpenStreetMap (OSM) data with plausible buildings, where the density of the contributed map data for Building is not sufficient



The nicest result you'll get if you model the building yourself with sketchup, ac3d or blender.

here are some osm2city screenshots:
(roads.py is making roads, it is included in the osm2city package)
http://www.23hq.com/laserman/album/17753165
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Re: Next-generation scenery generating?

Postby psadro_gm » Sat Oct 01, 2016 10:03 pm

I have the normal calculations, now. Everything is being generated on the fly. I see very little CPU usage.

Still lot's to do - I think I need to sample 1 extra pixel in the DEM so edges of tiles get correct normals ( you can see the edges )
Also, I haven't created skirts, yet, so there are gaps between levels.

I will add to Mathais' tunables to select grid spacing at each LOD level, to see if we can minimize the popping.

Note: the texture is just 1 4096x4096 sheet for the whole planet. It'll be nice to see what we can do with procedural texturing.

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Re: Next-generation scenery generating?

Postby D-ECHO » Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:25 am

Looks wonderful can this system already be feeded with Landclass data?
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Re: Next-generation scenery generating?

Postby PINTO » Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:08 am

Absolutely outstanding work. That looks freaking amazing.
Actively developing the MiG-21bis (github repo) (forum thread) (dev discord) (fg wiki)

http://opredflag.com is an active flightgear dogfighting community (using a system that isn’t bombable)
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Re: Next-generation scenery generating?

Postby bugman » Sun Oct 02, 2016 8:50 am

Wow, that looks like an great foundation to build on! I wonder what that would look like from orbit? Going from high orbit to ground level would make a great video showing off the full potential of the LOD system. With the visual artifacts out of the way (skirts, minimising popping and edges), this is going to look awesome! Maybe you should post that video link to the devel list so the core group know about this progress.

Regards,
Edward
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Re: Next-generation scenery generating?

Postby Hooray » Sun Oct 02, 2016 9:43 am

bugman wrote in Sun Oct 02, 2016 8:50 am:Maybe you should post that video link to the devel list so the core group know about this progress.


Ironically, it seems that the forum can be a much more rewarding platform to share such progress - to see for yourself, see Fred's 2010 posting sharing his OSG-based LOD experiments (ROAM2 based and using SRTM elevation data/custom scenery) and the response he got on the forum vs. the feedback on the devel list (and this isn't exactly unprecedented, exactly the same thing happened with FlightGear/osgEarth a few years later, and let's keep in mind that unlike poweroftwo, FredB already was a FlightGear core developer at the time).

(Posting those videos here so that psadro_gm is aware of those LOD related experiments)


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Thanks & all the best,
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Re: Next-generation scenery generating?

Postby psadro_gm » Sun Oct 02, 2016 11:43 am

There's also still some work to do from orbit. The far camera needs to be really far :)
I can post one anyway. You can see the terrain clipped.
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