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OSGearth as default scenery?

osgEarth renders the terrain scene by building the textured geometry at runtime from raw source imagery and elevation data. An experimental FlightGear integration is currently available.

Re: OSGearth as default scenery?

Postby Thorsten » Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:23 pm

And you're assuming that I'm assuming.


I trust you're familiar with the meaning of the phrasing 'You seem to...' (expressing uncertainty) in contrast to 'You are...' :-)
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Re: OSGearth as default scenery?

Postby PINTO » Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:31 pm

I know how difficult scenery is to create and all - but there should still be a way for people to fix the bad scenery and upload that to terrasync without having to download and install custom scenery.
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Re: OSGearth as default scenery?

Postby wkitty42 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:04 pm

PINTO wrote in Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:22 pm:It's really not that hard to see the stagnation. Takeoff from KSFO, head ~3nm west, and see how broken the scenery is.

what broken scenery are you talking about?? i just took the UFO to 1500ft and headed 270 degrees from the take off position... i used the GPS for my distance measuring... at 3nm out, it was a decent looking urban area... i kept going to just over the ridge to see to the bay and then turned right to 45 degrees... still seeing a decent urban area... flew that track for a few minutes and then turned to 125 degrees... still seeing decent urban territory... i don't see anything broken at all...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: OSGearth as default scenery?

Postby PINTO » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:23 pm

Sorry for not being ultra-super specific. I just thought most people had experienced it.
Try to land at Half Moon Bay.
Follow the coast north from there to the Golden Gate.
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Re: OSGearth as default scenery?

Postby Richard » Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:26 pm

PINTO wrote in Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:23 pm:Sorry for not being ultra-super specific. I just thought most people had experienced it.
Try to land at Half Moon Bay.
Follow the coast north from there to the Golden Gate.


I suspect that a list of any areas that are currently broken would be massively helpful to those working on terragear so please make it a list and post it being specific, lat/lon is good for this.
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Re: OSGearth as default scenery?

Postby wkitty42 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:28 pm

i don't have any problems with KHAF... no water on the runway or trees or such... landed and took off going both ways... everything else looked ok, too... but if you're talking about areas of the coasts where there are roads, power towers and buildings in the water, that's due, IIRC, to a bug that was fixed after WS2.0 was built... that fix and others should be in the tool chain now and other than getting the next world scenery built, the only current fix is newly built ""custom"" scenery to replace/override what is currently available on terrasync...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: OSGearth as default scenery?

Postby PINTO » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:40 pm

@wkitty: Flightgear ships with some nice KSFO scenery, which is what you are seeing. The default Terrasync for that area is broken. It has been for months, if not longer. Once Terrasync overwrites the default there, you'll see the issue. If you don't, good on you. Count yourself lucky. But I'm not going to argue the state of KHAF or the coast north of it in terrasync. It is quite broken.

See:
https://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21911
https://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=26727
https://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=25073 (this one has pictures)
https://sourceforge.net/p/flightgear/codetickets/1711/ (explains default vs. terrasync)
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Re: OSGearth as default scenery?

Postby wkitty42 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:08 pm

PINTO wrote in Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:40 pm:@wkitty: Flightgear ships with some nice KSFO scenery, which is what you are seeing.

no, i'm not... the only tiles i have around KSFO all came from terrasync... i just wrote that what was in fgdata and what was in terrasync has been merged together... that was a few weeks back when the Barcelona package was created for the upcoming 2016.2.1 release... i have no other scenery on my system... no custom scenery or any default scenery in fgdata... the following is what i have after my recent removal of the .terrasync_cache files in that tile area...

Code: Select all
myuser@mymachine:~/$ cat ~/myflightgear/TSScenery/Terrain/w130n30/w123n37/.terrasync_cache
terrasync-cache-4
http://ns334561.ip-5-196-65.eu:8888/!svn/vcc/default
http://ns334561.ip-5-196-65.eu:8888/trunk/data/Scenery/Terrain/w130n30/w123n37
56429


Code: Select all
ls -la ~/myflightgear/TSScenery/Terrain/w130n30/w123n37
total 38440
drwxr-xr-x  2 myuser myuser    4096 Mar 27 13:50 .
drwxr-xr-x 22 myuser myuser    4096 Jan  2 08:14 ..
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser     598 Mar 27 13:49 02Q.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser     568 Mar 27 13:50 15CA.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser     823 Mar 27 13:48 16CA.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser     580 Mar 27 13:49 17CA.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser    1436 Mar 27 13:50 17CL.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser     597 Mar 27 13:50 1CL3.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser     562 Mar 27 13:49 44Q.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser     539 Mar 27 13:49 45Q.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser     590 Mar 27 13:48 4Q2.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser     584 Mar 27 13:50 55CA.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser     588 Mar 27 13:50 59CA.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser     570 Mar 27 13:50 5CA3.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser  134912 Mar 27 13:49 942018.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser     259 Mar 27 13:49 942018.stg
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser 1924228 Mar 27 13:49 942019.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser     262 Mar 27 13:49 942019.stg
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser  699551 Mar 27 13:50 942026.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser      23 Mar 27 13:49 942026.stg
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser 1494778 Mar 27 13:50 942027.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser      23 Mar 27 13:49 942027.stg
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser 1297504 Mar 27 13:49 942034.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser      23 Mar 27 13:50 942034.stg
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser 2380820 Mar 27 13:48 942035.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser      23 Mar 27 13:50 942035.stg
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser    1161 Mar 27 13:48 942041.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser      23 Mar 27 13:50 942041.stg
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser 1584753 Mar 27 13:50 942042.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser      23 Mar 27 13:50 942042.stg
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser 3394755 Mar 27 13:50 942043.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser     901 Mar 27 13:50 942043.stg
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser  130402 Mar 27 13:49 942049.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser     613 Mar 27 13:50 942049.stg
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser 2574311 Mar 27 13:49 942050.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser    3256 Mar 27 13:48 942050.stg
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser 1581372 Mar 27 13:48 942051.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser    2671 Mar 27 13:48 942051.stg
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser    1601 Mar 27 13:50 942056.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser      23 Mar 27 13:49 942056.stg
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser   49690 Mar 27 13:50 942057.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser      23 Mar 27 13:49 942057.stg
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser 2787282 Mar 27 13:49 942058.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser     120 Mar 27 13:49 942058.stg
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser 2532288 Mar 27 13:49 942059.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser   19022 Mar 27 13:49 942059.stg
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser  378663 Mar 27 13:49 942065.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser      23 Mar 27 13:49 942065.stg
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser 2758197 Mar 27 13:50 942066.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser     701 Mar 27 13:49 942066.stg
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser 3191741 Mar 27 13:50 942067.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser     294 Mar 27 13:49 942067.stg
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser  143029 Mar 27 13:50 942072.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser      23 Mar 27 13:50 942072.stg
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser 2458522 Mar 27 13:50 942073.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser     195 Mar 27 13:50 942073.stg
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser 2043303 Mar 27 13:49 942074.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser     314 Mar 27 13:50 942074.stg
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser 2555810 Mar 27 13:49 942075.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser   10742 Mar 27 13:50 942075.stg
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser     559 Mar 27 13:48 CA14.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser     810 Mar 27 13:49 CA26.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser     590 Mar 27 13:49 CA27.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser     554 Mar 27 13:48 CA30.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser     582 Mar 27 13:49 CA63.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser     569 Mar 27 13:49 CL41.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser    5199 Mar 27 13:49 CL77.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser  469961 Mar 27 13:49 KCCR.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser     960 Mar 27 13:50 KCSY.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser  112411 Mar 27 13:50 KHAF.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser  291324 Mar 27 13:49 KHWD.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser     972 Mar 27 13:48 KJMC.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser  111772 Mar 27 13:50 KNUQ.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser 1023134 Mar 27 13:49 KOAK.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser   29588 Mar 27 13:49 KPAO.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser  710016 Mar 27 13:49 KSFO.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser  225963 Mar 27 13:49 KSQL.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser    3387 Mar 27 13:49 SFO1.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser     833 Mar 27 13:49 SFO2.btg.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 myuser myuser     156 Mar 27 13:50 .terrasync_cache

i'll note that i am running the latest 2016.2.0 code, fgdata and fgaddon as of
Code: Select all
********** 20160408_151325EDT **********
********** Total elapsed time is 5m 10s **********

PLib:    1b3b3e1d7689a85a50720f112614022c65d592bb
OSG:     389a05d5dc71609e8ffbf4f0bf3dc163435edf8e
Simgear: 92a51059b4a1dc19c78331ae34abcab676bcf766
FGFS:    5e4063b76192888ead2d901543c88d4734725c2e
FGData:  f3d79f18e33c2bbb0c51f58b245b8cc0932517f7
FGAddon: r1700 | sanhozay | 2016-04-08 13:26:55 -0400 (Fri, 08 Apr 2016)


so i'm three days behind right now but that won't help with the scenery problems you are seeing...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: OSGearth as default scenery?

Postby Hooray » Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:51 pm

Thorsten wrote in Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:20 pm:You sort of joined this forum Dec 2015 and see stagnation after a few months already?


I find that unnecessarily harsh, especially in the light of dozens of postings to be found in the devel list where scenery developers, and even core developers, agreed that there's stagnation in the scenery department - for reference, I suggest to look up Martin's postings, conveniently preserved at: http://wiki.flightgear.org/Mapserver

The most recent posting on stagnating scenery development is this:
https://sourceforge.net/p/flightgear/ma ... /34924793/
Torsten wrote:
I understad that goal, but it has led to 3 years of stagnation of
airport layouts. The gateway(our upstream) is full of new and improved
airport layouts. WED artists of the FG community are sad to see that
their work is not integrated in the main FG scenery.
Agreed, lets work on a precedure how to integrate that into our toolchain.
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Re: OSGearth as default scenery?

Postby jaxsin » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:41 pm

Understanding even just a fraction of the work that goes into scenery, I really appreciate the tremendous achievement that is the 2.0 scenery, and the degree to which these efforts continue to be bad-mouthed upsets me - more so since there's so little understanding just how futile manual approaches are in the face of the size of the planet.


Awe... let me know when this should honestly make a difference. I have been trying to learn the process and I been told time and time again it is broken!!! Broken to the point of stagnation

But, I digress, that certainly isn't helping further development, now is it?

Not sure how you see this as bad mouthing either, it was certainly not my goal when I said

while I appreciate
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Re: OSGearth as default scenery?

Postby hamzaalloush » Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:15 am

Obviously this thread is going no where(digressing about scenery), unless we(as a collective) or as an individual effort ensue to port this to possibly 2016.2.0, when we have something going, we can start asking demands then,

I'm also curious about what is such that makes this feature a black box? is it because it's undocumentated or there's something uncompatabile with the way it does things in the code.

Obviously the veteran coders here don't have enough time to persue this so we might as well collaborate and find out what's going on.

no need for bashing he said/she said for now.

https://github.com/gwaldron/osgearth

this comment is part of Thorsten's not considering it with a straight face,
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Re: OSGearth as default scenery?

Postby wlbragg » Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:32 am

The title here is "OSGearth as default scenery". While I am all for OSGEarth being one of the scenery choices we can choose to fly over. It would not make a good default or stand alone scenery for FG. It is based on photographs of the earth at a particular time and date that are not dynamic in any way shape or form. Thorsten has stated many times about the negative aspects of trying to use it with the existing lighting framework we currently have. The best land scenery being rendered that you see in any sim or game is not OSGEarth, it is always a combination of texturing, elevation data and shader magic. I think we would be taking a step backward to use OSGEarth as the default scenery renderer. But it would be a great addition to our scenery arsenal as another choice.
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Re: OSGearth as default scenery?

Postby Thorsten » Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:10 am

Awe... let me know when this should honestly make a difference. I have been trying to learn the process and I been told time and time again it is broken!!!


Yes - it's human nature unfortunately. I've seen it before more than I really care to - people who have lots of time on their hands to write forum posts take quotes out of context and tell newcomers a dozen times that according to their opinion X is broken and how the devel community fails to fix it, and the human mind is near hard-wired to believe not what is true but what you read most often.

You should keep in mind that people who tell you a dozen times that X is broken often have an agenda of their own which they hope to advance by generating wide-spread user discontent. I trust you can guess yourself what the agenda is here.

The scenery generation process has been slow as long as I can remember, with cycles of years - by that measure it has always been broken or stagnant. So how do you really want to judge after a few months? But see what we get to read only yesterday by psadro_gm:

I'm making slow but steady progress on the scenery LOD project. My hope is to have some test scenery on dropbox by the end of April.

Slow but steady progress is what it's always been. Far slower than the update cycles for scenemodels which are of order days, or of the core which are of order months. Maybe you should just get in touch with the people who do make progress with scenery rather than those who keep repeating it's broken if you want to make a difference.
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Re: OSGearth as default scenery?

Postby Thorsten » Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:57 am

I know how difficult scenery is to create and all - but there should still be a way for people to fix the bad scenery and upload that to terrasync without having to download and install custom scenery.


Which is probably why TorstenD suggested

Somebody provides self-contained and tested chunks of Terrain to be merged
into Terrasync. That "somebody" is responsible for the usability of that
terrain chunk.
By "provide" I mean
- make it available by rsync, tarball or anything else to be fetched,
unpacked into terrasync without human interaction.
- Work out a method to discover new or outdated chunks
- Work out a method how to tell scenemodels-db which objects need new
elevations
- Somehow "sign" the chunk so we have somebody who gurantees GPL
compatibility
- Work out a method how to avoid mutual exclusive changes (one person
updating EDFE, another improving EDDF [both share a tile])
Not everything need to be ready in detail but I'd like at least have an
idea how this should work.


as a proposal for a path to make this possible.

Which is to say, the mailing list discussion is already further advanced, beyond the 'if' considering the 'how' already.
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Re: OSGearth as default scenery?

Postby Hooray » Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:20 am

Getting back on topic:

@Hamza: Last I checked, osgEarth's use of shaders was a "black box" in the sense that it could not be easily controlled by the "host application" (think fgfs) - however, FlightGear obviously needs a way to interface with osgEarth-related effects/shaders. At the time, poweroftwo confirmed that there were osgEarth-level issues integrating such features with fgfs, and in particular the effects framework.

FWIW, I've been in touch with poweroftwo and he's currently very with busy with other things, but still hoping to revisit, and possibly also rebase/update, his set of patches. But he also said that he would appreciate help from people on non-Windows OS (namely Mac OSX and Linux) to help with testing, and specifically the cmake stuff.

In other words, poweroftwo is indeed hoping to re-submit a pull request, but would appreciate help/patches from people on Mac OSX/Linux, because he can only test on Windows.
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