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Dual control for Boeing 777

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Dual control for Boeing 777

Postby Hyde » Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:48 pm

Hello all,

I've just started to implement Dual control for 777.
I've pushed the first development to
https://gitlab.com/fg777_seattle/fg777_seattle/tree/dualctrl

So far just see the view each other like
Image

If you have knowledge or how to fix, please help.

Thanks,
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Re: Dual control for Boeing 777

Postby biloute974 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 10:10 am

Hi,

I can't help you but thanks for this great job :)
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Re: Dual control for Boeing 777

Postby Richard » Fri Mar 04, 2016 11:35 am

Hyde wrote in Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:48 pm:So far just see the view each other as two aircraft


The F-14 and F-15 dual control have a specific version of the aircraft that has no model - instead the MP model of the pilot's aircraft is used with the MP broadcast protocol used to transmit instrument data.

So the second player sits inside the first player's aircraft.

There may be other ways to achieve this; such as having two models but controlling the visibility of the 'other' model - but at some point most of the properties will need to be transmitted over MP to make this in anyway usable (IME).
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Re: Dual control for Boeing 777

Postby biloute974 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 11:47 am

Hello,
why not validate the display of the second plane, the co-pilot?
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Re: Dual control for Boeing 777

Postby Hooray » Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:12 pm

I agree with Richard, it would make sense to use "channels" for propagating certain data selectively, e.g. /velocities, /orientation, /position and various /instrumentation related properties.

AndersG's mp_broadcast module can be "abused" for this kind of thing (see wildfire.nas)

Ideally, this would be based on a publish/subscribe mechanism, i.e. using a MPI-like infrastructure/protocol: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publish%E ... be_pattern
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Re: Dual control for Boeing 777

Postby Hyde » Sat Mar 05, 2016 6:36 pm

That was my mistake.
Now only one model and Pilot can recognize the Copilot but Copilot can't get pilot yet.

What is the best reference aircraft for dual control?
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Re: Dual control for Boeing 777

Postby Johan G » Sat Mar 05, 2016 6:50 pm

From what I have read on the forums the PAF C-47 (i.e. by the French FlightGear community) have outstanding dual control capabilities.
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Re: Dual control for Boeing 777

Postby Hyde » Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:24 pm

Thank you, Johan G,

It's great but the copilot spawn on the ground as you see.
Image

Is dual control broken on current FG?
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Re: Dual control for Boeing 777

Postby AndersG » Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:23 pm

Hyde wrote in Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:24 pm:Is dual control broken on current FG?


It wasn't when I last tested it, but that was some months ago. I'll see if I can't try it again soon.

[EDIT]I've tried the ZLT-NT dual control now, and it seems to work as expected. (Though, running two
FG processes and windows give rise to rather bad graphics artefacts here, but I think that is a NVIDIA driver issue and
I have had this issue for some time.)[/EDIT]

Currently, my FG/git setup seems broken in some other ways - the view handling in my joystick config
(Saitek Aviator in fgdata) and my aircraft internal walk view (also in fgdata) has broken and for some reason
all untextured materials in my aircraft models appears to come out yellow instead of their assigned material
colour (the latter might be related to an OSG upgrade or switching to the legacy NVIDIA drivers, though).

As the initial author of the DualControl system I'd recommend that you look at the Zeppelin NT (ZLT-NT) as I don't know
what practices the C-47 team has followed. IMO the copilot player should not have any model as his/her position will lag
considerably behind the main aircraft for at least the main aircraft player but possibly also for others observing the two
players.
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Re: Dual control for Boeing 777

Postby Hyde » Sun Mar 06, 2016 3:26 pm

@AndersG
Thank you. Now I can see the cockpit and observe the captain's flight.
But all the instruments are blank so far.

How can I see the instruments?
Is idea that using local model and animate by master's data?

And one notice that if Captain enable TFC, co-pilot is displayed as another aircraft on ND,
Can't we disable?

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Re: Dual control for Boeing 777

Postby AndersG » Sun Mar 06, 2016 4:12 pm

Hyde wrote in Sun Mar 06, 2016 3:26 pm:@AndersG
How can I see the instruments?
Is idea that using local model and animate by master's data?


No, dual control, as I made it, uses the MP/AI 3d model of the primary pilot on the copilot's side.

That means that the properties driving the instrument animations have to be propagated over MP, either using the normal way with generic MP properties or (for reducing the data rate demand) using dual control components. Some instruments can or have to be run on both sides (e.g. the various radios), then the control inputs are transmitted and applied on both sides and on the copilot's side the outputs have to be routed to the relevant properties to animate the radio in the MP/AI model. The ZLT-NT has several examples of this. Note that the old 2.5d style animated PFD display in front of the left seat in ZLT-NT is not available in the MP/AI model. I don't know if canvas-based instruments are loaded for MP/AI models.
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Re: Dual control for Boeing 777

Postby Hyde » Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:25 am

So that means these are the best shot for 777 copilot view, right?
Image
Image
No instrument and no change of overhead panel.
Is there any other way to show them?
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Re: Dual control for Boeing 777

Postby hamzaalloush » Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:31 am

Hi Hyde,

long time no see/hear, great improvements to the plane basically by two man extraordinary people are their skill set.

unfortunately i stepped aside from 777(information gather role), and now members i know operating on more varied airplane, but it was fun while it latest! hope you good luck my friend :)

and sorry for the long hiatus, i hope our discussions in the past was fruitful with regarding to discussions/IRL feedbacks on the systems/avionics display's for operating 777.

:)
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Re: Dual control for Boeing 777

Postby AndersG » Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:13 am

Hyde wrote in Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:25 am:So that means these are the best shot for 777 copilot view, right?

No instrument and no change of overhead panel.
Is there any other way to show them?


Showing the flat panel instruments might be outside the current abilities of FG, it is so for 2.5D panels (age-old 2D based instruments mapped to a surface in 3D), but I don't know if canvas-based instruments (of the MP/AI model) can be shown on the copilot's side.

Animating all toggles, buttons and lights for the copilot is simply(!?) the matter of transferring the property values driving these animations from the pilot's side to the copilot and then connecting them to the properties (in the MP/AI model's property tree in /sim/ai/models/multiplayer[X]) that the animations look at.
Transferring input from the copilot back requires some additional work to send it back and merge it with the pilot's input, see e.g. the ZLT-NT radios.

These two things, sending state and merging back copilot input are both demonstrated in the ZLT-NT. I would note, though, that it would be a serious amount of work to do this for something as advanced as an airliner cockpit (however, adding a more convenient and terse API on top of the current mechanism could help somewhat) and that it would be likely to surpass by far the amount of information the MP protocol can carry for one player.
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Re: Dual control for Boeing 777

Postby Vladimir Akimov » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:58 am

Awesome! I must try !
You know me from youtube :)
I'm VladFlyer, take a look :

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBOvOg ... yNsYKuAxbw
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