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Learning to hover a heli

Postby someguy » Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:37 pm

Fun video from the Smarter Every Day channel:

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Re: Learning to hover a heli

Postby Johan G » Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:34 pm

I pretty much have only one thing to say: Awesome! :D 8)
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Re: Learning to hover a heli

Postby someguy » Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:56 am

If you liked that, check out the other videos on the channel. Destin Sandlin is an actual rocket scientist (well, OK, an aerospace engineer) with an insatiable craving to know how things work. Try this gem:

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Re: Learning to hover a heli

Postby Johan G » Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:07 pm

There is also a much deeper truth in that knowledge != understanding.

There is the saying that "what you hear you forget,what you see you forget, but what you do you will remember" (ok, it is not perfectly true, but I hope you get the drift).


/!\ This is a bit of a rant.

These days the people holding the budget for education often wants to cut down on the part where you get your hands dirty when going from theory to practice. In many ways I am happy that I grew up in the 80's, as many younger have not had the opportunity to try metal- and woodworking, sewing, physical and chemical experiments and plain old cooking as much as I and the people my age did. Today they sometimes hardly get the opportunity at all. :|

This also happens in higher education, for example engineers going through the theory of load-bearing calculations while not having the opportunity to put them into practice doing experiments. At the other hand they are very good at designing things and put them through FEM calculations in the software tools, but without that practical experience it is harder to get the understanding needed to for example spot erroneous output.

If you have any way to have your kids getting their hands dirty with arts and crafts and learning things, maybe even trying out experiments that compares calculated values with measured values (even as simple as a lever with different arm lengths and weights) I think you will do both your kids and society a favor.
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Re: Learning to hover a heli

Postby HJ1AN » Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:46 am

I saw the backwards bicycle one, and I was actually wondering if the steering ratio of a normal bicycle was duplicated in the backwards one. If that isn't the case, (and it looks like so, see how he turn the steering on the bike nearly 90degrees just as a balance correction. In the most extreme case, while going off balance on a normal bike I would turn at most 45degrees ) then it could explain the situation why his brain broke over it. He had to relearn not only the backwards steering but also impossible ratio at the same time...

just my opinion
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Re: Learning to hover a heli

Postby someguy » Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:00 pm

There's a very clear view at 0:50 of the gears, which are the same size for a 1:1 ratio. Overcompensation is typical when learning a feedback-driven skill.
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Re: Learning to hover a heli

Postby LesterBoffo » Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:54 pm

The 'steering ratio' is always 1:1 on most handlebar steered, 'ordinary' bicycles. What's different is that the rake and trail of the bike's forks are not setup for traveling backwards, especially in a relaxed angle cruiser type bike, which generally have a shallower head-tube angle and more generous fork rake. These work fine in forward travel but will fight any attempt to make the bike steer easily in reverse.

This video of a gymnast who is adept at riding a circus/ trick bike displays the neutral steering a bike with no fork rake and a very steep head tube angle have.



The bike used in the Backwards Brain video is actually a poor choice for this.
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Re: Learning to hover a heli

Postby MIG29pilot » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:02 pm

I suppose a chap who flies F-103's through hangars and helicopters under monorail can't complain of that being SO DANGERUOS!!!
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Re: Learning to hover a heli

Postby HJ1AN » Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:16 pm

LOL. Iwasnt thinking properly. :lol: Yeah the ratio is always 1:1. Ithink most of you know what i meant.
Basically I'm asking if the process to reverse the steering if there is any ratio or something 'lost' during the transition to reverse the steering. The rake and angle seem to make sense, but I'm having a hard time making sense of that.

It didn't seem right because even when he has learned the bike his steering angles to keep the bike straight are still very insane.
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Re: Learning to hover a heli

Postby someguy » Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:35 pm

That was the point of the experiment. The skill of riding a bicycle becomes so ingrained in muscle memory that it's extremely challenging to retrain one's brain to deal with reversed control inputs. It has nothing to do with rake or trail, and everything to do with overriding established reflexes. Plus, it's hilarious! :)
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Re: Learning to hover a heli

Postby HJ1AN » Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:30 pm

Yes, it was hilarious and educational. The most interesting is that the backwards conversion completely erased his normal bicycle riding skills.

Imagine flying a reverse helo....

P.s. the Rubik's cube, if anyone taken some time to learn them requires actual memory to do them, and not only in 3d but have to consider all 6 sides. The Rubik's cube is much harder than flying a helicopter imo, except gravity doesn't kill you if you made a mistake..
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Re: Learning to hover a heli

Postby Johan G » Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:01 am

HJ1AN wrote in Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:30 pm:Imagine flying a reverse helo....

Whoa! :lol:

Imagine the mean evil practical joke of training a newbee in a heli with controls reversed, and then watch him/her fly something else at a heli event. :twisted:
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Re: Learning to hover a heli

Postby LesterBoffo » Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:00 am

I still find model helicopter pilots who can fly extreme 3D maneuvers, especially with such large RC copters as the 600 and 700 size, totally amazing. There's no full scale helicopter that can even come close to the tricks these helis can pull off with a good pilot.



When you're in the presence of a big, 12 pound RC helicopter with over 4 hp being driven into the main and tail rotors, doing high speed loops flips and other gyrations it's rather scary.
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Re: Learning to hover a heli

Postby MIG29pilot » Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:10 am

Yeah, you'd rip apart and kill the pilot if you did that in a real one
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Re: Learning to hover a heli

Postby Johan G » Sun Nov 29, 2015 12:00 am

Skill level: Jedi. 8) Some of those demos makes me think of that fight* between Yoda and Count Dooku in Star Wars II.

* Which in my opinion was way over the top, but then again I am not all that much into the prequels.


Some posts following this one were split off to the new topic The Star Wars franchise.
Last edited by Johan G on Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Some posts following this one were split off to the new topic "The Star Wars franchise".
Low-level flying — It's all fun and games till someone looses an engine. (Paraphrased from a YouTube video)
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