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New Ratings

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New Ratings

Postby Sebulba » Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:20 am

Hello,

I suggest the following ratings for some currently unrated aircraft:

1.) Beechcraft b1900d
FDM: 3 stars
Systems: 2 stars
Cockpit: 4 stars
Model: 4 stars

2.) DHC6 Twin Otter
FDM: 3 stars
Systems: 2 stars
Cockpit: 4 stars
Model: 4 stars

3.) Dromader
FDM: 3 stars
Systems: 2 stars
Cockpit: 4 stars
Model: 4 stars

4.) Mig-15
FDM: 3 stars
Systems: 2 stars
Cockpit: 4 stars
Model: 4 stars

5.) Robinson R22
FDM: 3 stars
Systems: 2 stars
Cockpit: 4 stars
Model: 4 stars

All the above ratings are "strict" and may even be higher in some cases. Rating them will make them easier to find for users that look for good modeled crafts. Also, I suggest that the "b29" and the "ogel" get removed from the "photo-realistic cockpit textures" category.
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Re: New Ratings

Postby wlbragg » Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:43 am

Beings this is 4 days old and no response yet,

bump

Can anyone suggest how to make this happen. Can I/we do a merge request to git?
I hate to see free grunt work wasted!
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Re: New Ratings

Postby elgaton » Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:49 am

This wasn't probably answered because we were in the middle of a migration (fgdata was finally cleaned and migrated to SourceForge).

  1. Check out the new fgdata from https://sourceforge.net/p/flightgear/fgdata/ (you need to do a fresh clone, an existing one won't work).
  2. Add the ratings to the aircraft .xml files.
  3. Submit a merge request on SourceForge.
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Re: New Ratings

Postby wlbragg » Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:59 am

Thank you elgaton.

Sebulba, do you understand and feel comfortable doing this?
If not, I can probably get to this within a few days.
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Re: New Ratings

Postby IAHM-COL » Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:09 am

elgaton wrote in Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:49 am:This wasn't probably answered because we were in the middle of a migration (fgdata was finally cleaned and migrated to SourceForge).

  1. Check out the new fgdata from https://sourceforge.net/p/flightgear/fgdata/ (you need to do a fresh clone, an existing one won't work).
  2. Add the ratings to the aircraft .xml files.
  3. Submit a merge request on SourceForge.


The interesting twist is that you dont Rank aircrafts in FGDATA anymore
This are changes that belong to Aircraft, which are no longer hosted in FGDATA.

These changes have to occur in the aircrafts repository.

So as a matter of fact, this whole thing could try to make its way to "Official" Aircraft repository as a ticket, here: https://sourceforge.net/p/flightgear/tickets/ , or ask someone with SVN repo write authority to author this changes for you,
Or, you could be given write priviledges to the write these to the SVN repo yourself.

A Non-official version of the aircrafts also exist in git at FGMEMBERS: https://github.com/FGMEMBERS
You can fork all of these FIVE aircraft, makes the changes yourself and then submit a pull request in github to get these changes authored by yourself, more expeditely.

The unfortunate part of it is that, while I am trying hard to lobby the Git FGMEMBERS as a feasible official alternative to the SVN method, some core developers are very resilient to allow that too happen, and consider that authoring is easier in a centralized SVN repository. With that I mean, you can use Github FGMEMBERS area to easily submit this changes request, but they will be written in a distribution of the flightgear aircraft that is not the "official" one.

If you feel interested in making these rate changes in FGMEMBERs aircraft, but you are unsure of HOWTO do it yourself, let me know and I can either guide you thru, or if its too hard, I can go ahead and make these patches for you.

Sincerely
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Re: New Ratings

Postby Thorsten » Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:43 am

Please follow the published procedure (which is given in some detail in the wiki). Hint - posting ratings in the forum is not the intended procedure: :-)

It is the responsibility of the aircraft maintainer/developer if there is an active one. The rating system was specifically setup to be easy for the aircraft maintainer/developer to do because it assumes that the person doing the rating is very familiar with both the real-life aircraft specifications and systems and knows how close the model is to those. The procedure is very brief, more so any update.

It is possible for the third party to do the rating but it is a nontrivial undertaking for someone who is not intimately familiar with the real-life aircraft specifications and the FDM that would require a lot of time and effort at least for any aircraft that was at a somewhat advanced state of development. Of course early development phase aircraft would be easier to rate since the criteria for those levels does not require so much aircraft specific knowledge. Most of the unrated aircraft are probably unmaintained and many of them are probably aircraft that will end up with lower ratings if they are rated.

If one plans to add ratings to an aircraft, a good plan is the following:
* Try to locate the maintainer by pinging the devel mailing list and also asking on the forum. If there is a maintainer nicely ask them to rate their aircraft.
* If there is a maintainer but he/she is unable or unwilling to rate the aircraft ask permission to do the work. If you get permission then make the change and ask for it to be merged into the base package.
* If a maintainer can not be located or the aircraft is known to be abandoned do the rating and ask for the change to be merged into the base package.
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Re: New Ratings

Postby elgaton » Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:24 am

IAHM-COL wrote in Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:09 am:The interesting twist is that you dont Rank aircrafts in FGDATA anymore
This are changes that belong to Aircraft, which are no longer hosted in FGDATA.

These changes have to occur in the aircrafts repository.

My bad - I meant to say "Aircraft repository" there.
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Re: New Ratings

Postby Sebulba » Sun Mar 08, 2015 2:19 pm

Ok FGDATA will not contain aircraft anymore, but this is not about the standard package. It is about the official "download aircraft" webpage that hundreds of users use to download extra aircrafts everyday. This is the main reason I suggested that the above models get rated. So that users could find them easier. I don't care about unrated models that are unfinished, but the five models I mentioned are actually quite good.
Now, I know that the forum is NOT the place to suggest ratings, but I can't possibly reach each and every maintainer. So to sum up, where do we have to upload the updated .xml files in order to see them included in the official "download aircraft" page? Also, will this webpage be exactly the same repository as the ingame aircraft centre or not?
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Re: New Ratings

Postby IAHM-COL » Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:06 pm

Yes. Sebulba

What appears in the webpage is taken directly from the Official Aircraft Repository XMLs.
Not edited appart.

Which means.
You edit the xml. Then you merge the changes in the Official SVN repository. And wait for a good couple of months until an update is reflected.

You need to achieve an edition of the planes XMLs in the Aircraft Official repository, by, as I said, either submit a ticket, get someone with repo write access to author the changes yourself, or getting permission to write to the SVN repository, and write the changes yourself.

Take into account that there is some politics involved as Thorsten points out, you may need permission by the author of the aircrafts to make those modifications, in the first place.

If you do not achieve changing the config XMLs of those aircrafts in the Aircraft Official Repository, the "download aircraft" page will not display any change.
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Re: New Ratings

Postby Sebulba » Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:31 pm

Ok, so is anyone here eligible and interested in submiting these changes to the SVN (as I am obviously not)? Will anyone cross-check them for their validity after submition (the above ratings are the minimum that can be set and some of the models may be actually underated)? Should I better contact the original authors? In that case, how would I find them contact information?
Thanks :)
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Re: New Ratings

Postby IAHM-COL » Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:11 pm

I don't really know how you find original authors. Let's see who can give you some orientation there.
Some people I know can write in the SVN include Torsten Dreyer, Clement de L'Hamaide (F-JJTH), Martin (Gijs), and James Turner. There are, some many others in or around 20 of them.

I proceeded for you and left a ticket to bring this topic to their attention:

https://sourceforge.net/p/flightgear/tickets/5/

Best,
IHCOL
Last edited by IAHM-COL on Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Ratings

Postby Thorsten » Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:16 pm

Take into account that there is some politics involved as Thorsten points out, you may need permission by the author of the aircrafts to make those modifications, in the first place.


If you stop your incessant rants for a moment and pause to think, you'll probably be able to figure out quite soon why

a) the author and maintainer of an aircraft is the perferred choice to make ratings and
b) random users should not be able to write to aircraft

Neither of this is politics, it has to do with common sense.

but I can't possibly reach each and every maintainer.


I seem to have missed your post to the devel mailing list asking the maintainers for a statement. I assure you that it is very possible to contact active aircraft maintainers and that people can usually tell you when aircraft are unmaintained (the Mig-15bis currently is as far as I know).
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Re: New Ratings

Postby Torsten » Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:59 pm

IAHM-COL wrote in Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:11 pm:I don't really know how you find original authors. Let's see who can give you some orientation there.


Given your expertise in GIT, I don't dare to recommend
Code: Select all
git log Aircraft/dhc6


or probably:
https://gitorious.org/fg/fgdata/source/ ... craft/dhc6

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Re: New Ratings

Postby IAHM-COL » Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:18 pm

@Sebulba

In fact Torsten suggestion above is really good; I took the liberty of procceeding those commands for you for the aircrafts you referred to, so you can use that info to contact whom it concern:

B1900D
Code: Select all
Author: Emilian Huminiuc <emilianh at gmail.com>
Author: syd <adams.syd at gmail.com>
Author: Torsten Dreyer <Torsten at t3r.de>
Author: Gijs de Rooy <gijsrooy at hotmail.com>
Author: ThorstenB <brehmt at gmail.com>
Author: jmt <jmt>
Author: frohlich <frohlich>
Author: sydadams <sydadams>
Author: fredb <fredb>
Author: daveluff <daveluff>
Author: mfranz <mfranz>
Author: curt <curt>



DHC6
Code: Select all
Author: Gijs de Rooy <gijsrooy at hotmail.com>
Author: Stuart Buchanan <stuart_d_buchanan at yahoo.co.uk>
Author: syd <adams.syd at gmail.com>


Dromader
Code: Select all
Author: Anders Gidenstam <anders at gidenstam.org>
Author: Gijs de Rooy <gijsrooy at hotmail.com>
Author: ThorstenB <brehmt at gmail.com>
Author: Gijs de Rooy <gijsrooy at hotmail.com>
Author: unknown <Pavel Cueto at .(none)>


Mig15
Code: Select all
Author: Anders Gidenstam <anders at gidenstam.org>
Author: Eric van den Berg <evan_den_berg at hotmail.com>
Author: ThorstenB <brehmt at gmail.com>
Author: Gijs de Rooy <gijsrooy at hotmail.com>
Author: Erik Hofman <erik at ehofman.com>
Author: Victor Slavutinsky <vitosnet at mail.ru>
Author: Durk Talsma <durk at localhost.(none)>
Author: Victor Slavutinsky <vitosnet at mail.ru>
Author: mfranz <mfranz>
Author: vmmeazza <vmmeazza>
Author: curt <curt>


Robinson R-22
Code: Select all
Author: Vivian Meazza <vivian.meazza at lineone.net>
Author: mfranz <mfranz>
Author: sydadams <sydadams>


I hope it helps, pointing you in the rigth direction,
Best,
Israel
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Re: New Ratings

Postby Sebulba » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:14 am

Wow guys, this forum was helpul in everyway once again. Thanks to all for your suggestions and provided info. I will now contact all the authors and hope that they rate their models soon. :)
Now that FGDATA won't include any aircrafts, upgrading our "Aircraft Download" webpage will be more important than ever before.

PS. Would you be kind enough to provide the contact information of Guillaume Chauvat and Laurent Hayvel as well? (C684)

Thanks :)
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