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Car Park Terrain area

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Car Park Terrain area

Postby spencer.james » Wed Dec 24, 2014 4:58 pm

Not sure if this is the right area, but...

Have the ability to draw or assign an area that is a car park, for airports for instance. Most airports have car parks near by that you can see on arrival, so could be an easy way to add some more realism.
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Re: Car Park Terrain area

Postby wlbragg » Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:59 pm

Does a carpark texture make any sense?
Or is modeling it the better idea?

I drew parking with roads at a major airport and it looked BAD!
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Re: Car Park Terrain area

Postby pommesschranke » Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:47 pm

Today I was also thinking about carpark areas in flightgear.
EDLW is the first airport that I am making and I used the Models/Transport/egkk_carpark_surf.xml
which looks so-so.

I have 2 ideas:
1.) the global OpenStreetmap approach to use areas like carpark, tennis court, football field from OpenStreetmap when building tiles with Terragear.

2.) the manual approch:
make a model similar to egkk_carpark_surf but with only one face + a normal map.
I never made a normal map but I hope it will look better than egkk_carpark_surf


wlbragg: how did you draw roads in FG ?
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Re: Car Park Terrain area

Postby wlbragg » Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:23 pm

how did you draw roads in FG ?

I'm referring to drawing lines in QGIS and mapping it to road. I turned out exactly like you might expect, terrible.
I was using textured roads and so I had to many lines everywhere.
I didn't experiment with different textures designed for that specific application and maybe using line width to a large degree.

Why couldn't we use the same method we use to create airport cement slabs and asphalt but for parking?
Maybe parking should be part of the airport, created using the same tools at the same time?
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Re: Car Park Terrain area

Postby pommesschranke » Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:34 pm

Why couldn't we use the same method we use to create airport cement slabs and asphalt but for parking?
Maybe parking should be part of the airport, created using the same tools at the same time?


I think that's the way it was done at LOWI
Do it in WED and try if it gets accepted at gateway.x-plane . If not, then you can still offer it as custom
scenery.

The OSM/Terragear approach would cover all carparks , not only those close to the airport.
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Re: Car Park Terrain area

Postby wlbragg » Thu Dec 25, 2014 2:58 pm

1.) the global OpenStreetmap approach to use areas like carpark, tennis court, football field from OpenStreetmap when building tiles with Terragear.

That makes a lot of sense. Every time there is a new scenery gen we would theoretically get richer and more OSM data merged into our scenery.
I really like this idea.
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Re: Car Park Terrain area

Postby psadro_gm » Thu Dec 25, 2014 4:54 pm

Most of the mentioned objects require local texturing, which still isn't officially supported. If the items have direction info in OSM, then we can texture the areas similar to the textured road support. The polygons in shapefiles have no such direction info, theses landclasses are textured based on position alone. Anyone have an example from OSM (like a carpark)
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Re: Car Park Terrain area

Postby pommesschranke » Thu Dec 25, 2014 10:02 pm

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag: ... %3Dparking

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.1299/7.6875

Code: Select all
<node id="419820144" visible="true" version="2" changeset="16791277" timestamp="2013-07-02T12:52:31Z" user="pietzke" uid="1476079" lat="52.1300926" lon="7.6876036"/>
 <node id="419820146" visible="true" version="2" changeset="16791277" timestamp="2013-07-02T12:52:31Z" user="pietzke" uid="1476079" lat="52.1300789" lon="7.6898845"/>
<node id="419820150" visible="true" version="2" changeset="16791277" timestamp="2013-07-02T12:52:31Z" user="pietzke" uid="1476079" lat="52.1296237" lon="7.6875956"/>
<node id="419820148" visible="true" version="1" changeset="1506426" timestamp="2009-06-13T17:53:09Z" user="Jörg Frede" uid="121922" lat="52.1296046" lon="7.6898630"/>

<way id="35914082" visible="true" version="2" changeset="16791277" timestamp="2013-07-02T12:52:30Z" user="pietzke" uid="1476079">
  <nd ref="419820144"/>
  <nd ref="419820146"/>
  <nd ref="419820148"/>
  <nd ref="419820150"/>
  <nd ref="419820144"/>
  <tag k="amenity" v="parking"/>
  <tag k="fee" v="yes"/>
  <tag k="name" v="P2"/>
  <tag k="parking" v="surface"/>
 </way>


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Re: Car Park Terrain area

Postby psadro_gm » Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:29 am

So they are just area definitions - the above being a five sided polygon. With just the area alone, it's impossible to texture exactly, but you can make assumptions (i.e. orient the parking isles based on the shortest or longest side). The airport polygons for taxiways includes an orientation vector to tell the parser which direction to align the textures.

The link shows an example with one way isles inside the parking area, If this information was available along with the area definition, accurate rendering is possible.

Of course, what we start running into is ultra-dense triangle networks. We would need to drape such items over the terrain rather then embed into it. It would need to be under an LOD node so we can load smaller than single tile detail.
I would suppose this would fall under OSM2city jurisdiction, as I feel the highly detailed city / landclass should be done on top of the terrain, not embedded into it. Some people don't have the hardware to handle such high detail.

Currently, OSM2city draping is far from optimal. I plan on creating a new executable something like fgelev, but instead of returning an elevation for a lon,lat, you could pass in a polygon, and the program would return a perfectly draped array of triangles. (perhaps with texture coordinates).
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Re: Car Park Terrain area

Postby pommesschranke » Fri Dec 26, 2014 3:09 am

psadro_gm wrote in Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:29 am: the above being a five sided polygon.


it is 4 sided. the begining point is also the ending point.

but you can make assumptions (i.e. orient the parking isles based on the shortest or longest side).


yes. I expect good results with such an assumption.

We would need to drape such items over the terrain rather then embed into it. It would need to be under an LOD node so we can load smaller than single tile detail.
I would suppose this would fall under OSM2city jurisdiction, as I feel the highly detailed city / landclass should be done on top of the terrain, not embedded into it.


I agree.


I plan on creating a new executable something like fgelev, but instead of returning an elevation for a lon,lat, you could pass in a polygon, and the program would return a perfectly draped array of triangles. (perhaps with texture coordinates).


I'm happy to hear about that.
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Re: Car Park Terrain area

Postby islandmonkey » Sun Dec 28, 2014 12:56 pm

On another note - what is the problem with current roads overlapping airport scenery? Lots of problems could be fixed (or introduced :D) such as at my home airport of Southampton (this is more a case of too large airport area). The road that passes just south of runway 02 (the M27 motorway) is overlapped by airport area (see image below).
Image

This is also the case with London Gatwick's car parks in FG. Look at the images below, the car parks seem a bit isolated :(

Image
Image
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Re: Car Park Terrain area

Postby f-ojac » Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:38 am

There is a priority option to be set, so roads are clipped over the airport terrain, and not under (it's in the default priorities file).
This has been noted for the next scenery generation. However note that only major OSM roads are built in FG, so if the roads in the aiport area are not in the generated categories, they won't appear.
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Re: Car Park Terrain area

Postby psadro_gm » Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:54 pm

Note that even though this is now the default - there are issues. I've been generating LMML to test new genapt features, and it has a road that goes under the runway. The road smoothing conflicts with the airport boundary smoothing, so there are gaps. I will try to get this fixed before next WS.
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Re: Car Park Terrain area

Postby wlbragg » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:10 pm

Would this be an example of
The road smoothing conflicts with the airport boundary smoothing, so there are gaps
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Re: Car Park Terrain area

Postby psadro_gm » Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:50 pm

The gap on the right - yes. The road getting partially covered on the left, probably not.
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