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New Boeing 777 Seattle download site (git)

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Re: New Boeing 777 Seattle download site (git)

Postby I-NEMO » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:45 pm

Hallo punkepanda,

thanks for your message: glad that you like our work!

Regarding the AP: it works nicely, provided that you perform the appropriate actions. Hyde has made a meticoulous job in fine tuning it; of course, it's not finished yet, and it will evolve better in time.
So far, being Hyde absent for some time, you may refer to the old wiki page, here: http://wiki.flightgear.org/Boeing_777-200.

Try to replicate the procedure named 'Autopilot using LNAV/VNAV e.g. From KATL to KMIA.' It should work, even if some small things have changed since then...

Basically, you FIRST need to input a flight-route through the Route Manager, possibly using the SID and STAR procedures for the chosen rways: do not expect the AP to follow Alitude changes at WPs, though, [except while climbing to Cruise Level Altitude, which you MUST input in the relevant Field in the Route manager (on the right), together with the Speed to be used by the AP to climb to Cruise Level (on the left)], as the scope of the AP is to take the aircraft nicely to Cruise Altitude by VNAV, and to follow the WPs by LNAV. [Also, you need at least two WP to be input between origin and destination apts, after SID procedure and before STAR procedure]

After you have finalized your flight plan, and while still 'On Ground', select LNAV and VNAV (before actual take-off, usually at gate, or while taxiing to the departing rway): the respective LEDs will illuminate.

Then take off, do stabilize as usual the aircraft (almost horizontal attitude) and activate the AP: it engages and will immediately follow the VNAV and LNAV programs.

Also: take notice that - if you are flying around with LNAV disengaged, and then wish to actually follow the Route programmed in the Route Manager so to land at the programmed destination apt - you MUST first take the aircraft in a short range of the programmed Route: 3 miles of maximum distance, and not more than 30° angle (Aircraft related to Route): in this conditions, hitting LNAV makes the AP capable of taking again control of the aircraft and follow the course; also, you must have selected an appropriate WP to go to, that is that it sould lies ahead of the actual intersection with your route to the programmed course.

Finally, once the aircraft hits the TD (Top of Descent) point (green marker on the PFD/Map), the AP will make the aircraft to descend to the ALT you will have already selected by the Altitude selector on the AP panel (on the right side): do note, please, that this final Alitude MUST be set BEFORE the aircraft hits the TD point: for instance, if you're cruising at 20000 ft., and see the TD green marker dispalyed on the PFD, and you need to start STAR/Approach procedures at - say - 4000 ft, you have to select 4000 ft on the ALT selector before reaching TD point (check your Map on the PFD): once on the TD point, the AP will take care of the descent to 4000 ft nicely...

Then, just prior to intercept the final descent route ('on final'), acivate LOC: the AP will make the aircraft to follow the Apt's Localizer (you must have a valid frequency selected on Nav1), by adjusting Lateral course; then, while gently descending (usually at 3000-3500 ft, depending from Apt), activate GS, so that the AP will take down the aircraft vertically following the Glide Slope.
Notice: After new scenery, many Apts had wrong GS tresholds; Hyde, with a valuable effort, took care to edit and correct the nav.dat file. We strongly reccomend to use this new file (please see Hyde's post about that, a few week ago).

While working on the Seattle, we decided to try to make it as much as possible similar to the real plane (of, course it's an impossible task to be fully achieved by any simulator): so, should you like to do it, please refer to the Boeing 777 Operation Manual, where you will find more info about the real 777's AP: it does not work as a simple 'hit & forget' tool, as the casual pilot might expect.
It's a complex computer, which must be used as Boeing planned it to be used by the Pilots.

We are planning to produce a new wiki page for the 777 Seattle: at the moment, though, I'm quite busy with modeling a new EFB and other stuff. But, sooner or later, we may post a new wiki page containing a full description of the aircraft's tools and commands. BTW, we're still in the process of developing the Seattle's Cockpit...so, please be patient with us. We're not perfect, nor we pretend to be as such.

And we value very much all you posts and reactions, good or bad they might be...

Thank you.

Regards,

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Re: New Boeing 777 Seattle download site (git)

Postby TrueNorthist » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:55 pm

I hope you fellas do not mind a little input from we the unwashed fliers? If so, I have noted a tendency for the aircraft to "porpoise" a bit after passing into another live metar cell that has a different pressure. It occurs at altitude (~fl350 and above @ .84 to .87 mach with varying fuel loads, 777-200LR-s) and gradually dampens out if given enough time but the plane will lazily hunt up and down for several minutes sometimes. Not a lot, ~50 to 100 feet max, but it is quite noticeable. The AP appears to be slow in adjusting once assigned alt is reached and tends to go past enough for the AP to apply opposite correction. I do not recall the "stock" 777 meandering around quite this much. BTW, I have advanced weather enabled and aloft waypoints selected. I have not yet spent enough time in the seat to say whether this occurs at other alts and speeds or not.

I have also noticed the aircraft is much less forgiving on an unstable approach. One can easily induce some pretty wild phugoids with the flaps extended! Best to fly the AP gently, like the plane is filled with sleeping African bees that wake up when bounced around too much.
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Re: New Boeing 777 Seattle download site (git)

Postby I-NEMO » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:14 pm

Hallo TrueNorthist,

Thanks for your notice.
We do appreciate very much any report about the Seattle, wether coming from a newbie or an expert. After all, we're all here to enjoy nice flight simulations, isn'it?

Regarding the issue you reported; I did also noticed that. It's something that did not happen with 'standard' 777. At least, not so evidently.
Since the Seattle's AP is Hyde's work, and himself being actually unavailable, please rest assured that he will be informed about that. We'll try to fix the issue, and report when solved.

Regarding the 'unforgiving' aircraft's behavior: it's true, and probaly its' a good sign that we're - perhaps ! - moving in the right direction.
I personally assume that a real aircraft would be even more 'unforgiving' with Pilot-simulators as we are!...anyway, we'll look into the matter.
BTW, not being a native English, I'm curious by that 'phugoids' :shock: : where does that term come from?

Thanks,

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Re: New Boeing 777 Seattle download site (git)

Postby John Taillor » Thu May 01, 2014 6:48 am

Thank you for your answer I-NEMO,
I can tell you, the rudder is properly configured, because everything steers fine on other aircrafts (even with the old 777) : also it's the same problem with the keyboard. Do you, in the development process, changed a file related to tiller steering ? Cauz if I look at the tiller-steering.xml, it's the same content as the old 777 ! Is there not a problem somewhere with /sim/controls/gears/tiller-steering, e.g. bad spelling or defining ? But if that's thsi, everybody should have this issue... Strange :? I'll try under W7, maybe that works... I really want to fly this new 777. :cry:

Anyway thank you for
- the help
- the aircraft
- the FPS improvement
- ... :wink:
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Re: New Boeing 777 Seattle download site (git)

Postby F-JYL » Thu May 01, 2014 10:21 am

Usually, you activate Standard pressure at transition level (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_level#Transition_altitude) so you should not have any problem when the metar changes.

I use only tiller steering on the ground so I do not have any problem with the rudder.
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Re: New Boeing 777 Seattle download site (git)

Postby elgaton » Thu May 01, 2014 3:25 pm

Hi I-NEMO,
I tested the current Git revision of the aircraft - hope you don't mind if I list some bugs I've found...
  1. All door positions should be defined for animated jetways to work (currently, they are not).
  2. If I follow all the checklists needed to start the airplane, when turning off the APU and the battery at the end of the "Startup" checklist the aircraft shuts down - is there something I'm missing? Also, when performing the Startup checklist the "Set fuel pumps to On" item stays yellow ("incomplete") even if I enable all six fuel pumps.
  3. Setting the transponder to "TA/RA" when lining up and to "Off" (or "Ground") when exiting the runway is not contemplated in the checklists.
  4. Some error messages might be repeated continuously by the copilot, making it impossible to read text chat messages at the top of the screen when you are in mulltiplayer mode. For instance, once I did not start to descend at the T/D point and the "Reset MCP Alt" message was announced continuously.

I also have another question (not really specific to the 777 though): are the current route and the T/D point actually shown in the navigation panel? (I'm running on FG 3.0, not the latest Git version, and would like to know if these are actual bugs or not).
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Re: New Boeing 777 Seattle download site (git)

Postby I-NEMO » Thu May 01, 2014 5:35 pm

Hallo John Taillor,

as far as I know, no changes have been made to the Seattle's tiller-steering.
I presume that the problem is caused by a wrong/incomplete mapping of your 'Pedal' device to the Seattle's system; you may want to check for that...
Besides, it's quite strange that you cannot control the tiller (NOT the rudder!) through your keyboard...
And - so far - we have not received any other report on this specific issue: still, we will investigate the matter.

Do you read any nasal error reported in the Console?

Regards,

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Re: New Boeing 777 Seattle download site (git)

Postby I-NEMO » Thu May 01, 2014 5:50 pm

Hallo elgaton,

Thanks for your report.

Door positions: yes, we're aware of that: it will be taken care of soon.
Checklists: yes, the actual checklists are not consistent with current Seattle's StartUp procedures (checklists are coming from the 'standard' 777). Once we will have finished the new Seattle's EFB (where the NEW cheklists will be placed for Pilot's reading), we'll fix those issues. Please be patient, though,...it's a long work.
Multiplayer mode: we have not checked that; thanks, we'll investigate the issue.
Current Route and T/D point: yes, Route and T/D point are actually displayed on both NDs (independently by each other) through the new Canvas system. Current Route is plotted in magenta, T/D point in green. And current pre-release version for FG 3.0 actually already includes these features (I'm currently flying with that on Windows 7 64 bit). Of course, you may see the T/D point once the Aircraft will be in proximity of the last WPs ( once there, rotate the Map Distance Selector for better visualization).

Regards,

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Re: New Boeing 777 Seattle download site (git)

Postby Pierre.Mueller » Thu May 01, 2014 6:43 pm

Actually it looks great!
I'm not sure about the computer perfomance, even this version is much better.

Well done!
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Re: New Boeing 777 Seattle download site (git)

Postby Jabberwocky » Thu May 01, 2014 7:56 pm

Hi,

finally I came around to take her out for a spin. Rembrandt and my hardware are enemies, but that is caused by my old gpu. Still, by the numbers I have on the ground, with buildings and other stuff around 25 to 30 fps, which is, remember my gpu, 25 to 50 % better than with the older version.
In the air, once above the clouds, I have all the time 20 fps and that is about the same as before.

About the A/P: When switiching to A/P after the take off, so around 4000ft, flaps and gear already in, the A/P needs a moment to figure the situation, I guess, drops down by about a 1000 ft, but then recovers nicely. And the changing of METAR cells, the 300ER adapts quite fast as it looks to me. Have to see the 200LR yet.
Tiller Steering: Wait ... there are keys? :?:
I oversteer on the ground like hell with it. But that's probably because of sausage fingers on the mouse.

J.
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Re: New Boeing 777 Seattle download site (git)

Postby I-NEMO » Thu May 01, 2014 9:26 pm

Hallo Pierre.Mueller,

Thanks for your comment: looking forward for any further report.

Hallo jabberwocky,

glad you flew our Seattle!
Happy to hear that optimization is bringing such improvements on FR. Regarding the AP, Hyde will eventually fine-tune it in the next future.
Regarding tiller-steering: no, you're right. There are no specific keys for tiller-steering. Sorry, I was asking John Taillor if he could steer through the keyboard keys while on the ground...

@John Taillor: it looks - at the moment - that the aircraft actually steers nicely on the ground, as it should. Again, please check the mapping of your Pedal's device.

Thanks,

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Re: New Boeing 777 Seattle download site (git)

Postby John Taillor » Fri May 02, 2014 9:55 am

Ok, doesn't work on W7 on FG 2.12. :cry: Even with the keyboard. And tiller enabled. Nothing.
I really don't know why I am the only one who have this issue...
Anyway thank you for the other FG user which can use this new 777.
Cheers
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Re: New Boeing 777 Seattle download site (git)

Postby ackle » Mon May 05, 2014 4:10 pm

New Seattle looks good. Are there still plans to get better graphics performance out of it?

Also, I'm not sure if this was mentioned before or what the Boeing operating manual says: the ND map and plan modes show the route (magenta lines) in true heading, not magnetic, even if the true heading button is not active. Is this normal operating for the 777 / done on purpose, our something that needs to be fixed?

Thanks to the developers that are putting so much in effort into this plane!
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Re: New Boeing 777 Seattle download site (git)

Postby CaptB » Tue May 06, 2014 10:44 am

Do you guy need help with this? I am busy with a 767 model from scratch, but will galdly help out a bit here too. Can do Blender modelling, Inkscape/GIMP capable as well. Have programming experence but not with NASAL so i might be slow.
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Re: New Boeing 777 Seattle download site (git)

Postby jormapaappa1235 » Tue May 06, 2014 12:10 pm

Many people seem to have performance problems with this plane. It looks good, it really does, but would it be so bad to edit the buttons a little? You have many buttons that are almost 12000 faces --> very heavy. A bit too heavy for video game or simulator. I tried Decimate tool on Blender and dropped face count down to 1400. This is what it looks like:

Image
Guess which one is the 12000 one and which is edited. (OVHD/CB or GLARESHIELD)

I am currently modeling a new car for Assetto Corsa, which recommends ~65k triangles for external model and 65k for interior. The OH panel of yours includes over 200k faces or 300k triangles (FG doesn't require triangles, Assetto does) Yeah, I know Assetto is not FG but it is still a modern video game and I think the face/triangle count can be compared. If you want to increase fps, do something to those buttons ;)

But again: very nice looking cockpit :)
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