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Stop crashing, fgfs.exe  Topic is solved

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Re: Stop crashing, fgfs.exe

Postby MasteroftheSKIES » Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:47 am

I can fast forward the simulation. FG even crashes when fast-forwarded.
I would use FSX but I use FlightGear because it's a project with goals.

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Re: Stop crashing, fgfs.exe

Postby MasteroftheSKIES » Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:55 am

On a flight KLAX to KSFO using the route manager, FG crashed a little less than half way through cruise. It crashed about where FG crashes when I fly KSFO-KLAX. Which once again leads me to think, this is the border between the two different sceneries.

Image


This clearly has some errors, once again the STG file errors that occur in every single one of my FG flights, including the flight without using the route manager.
I would use FSX but I use FlightGear because it's a project with goals.

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Re: Stop crashing, fgfs.exe

Postby Hooray » Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:41 am

In general, it would help if you could save your flight plan to a file and post it here - it would also be interesting to see if the error can be reproduced with different aircraft, or even the ufo. To get rid of the aircraft-specific part.

And this is just a guess, but we keep seeing the "altitude restriction" note being last - have you tried editing/removing this from your flight plan, and fast-forwarding to see if the error persists or not ?
If it no longer shows up, that would suggest there's some RM issue - you may also want to save your log files for each run and compare the last 20-30 lines.
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Re: Stop crashing, fgfs.exe

Postby MasteroftheSKIES » Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:46 am

Don't mean to sound rude here, but the flight plan you can see for yourself. It's just the DEFAULT approach. I'll test it with other aircraft.

The "altitude restriction" hasn't always been last; also, I don't really know what you mean by editing or removing the altitude restriction. I have a cruising altitude, not really sure if that's a "restriction".
I have a 5GB RAM, do you think it could be a RAM issue?


By the way, here is my command line, just in case:

C:\Program Files\FlightGear\bin\Win64\fgfs.exe
--fg-root=C:\Program Files\FlightGear\data
--fg-scenery=C:\Program Files\FlightGear\data\Scenery;C:\Program Files\FlightGear\scenery;C:\Program Files\FlightGear\terrasync
--aircraft=777-300ER-S
--console
--disable-random-objects
--enable-ai-models
--disable-ai-traffic
--enable-real-weather-fetch
--geometry=1920x1200
--disable-terrasync
--multiplay=out,10,,0
--multiplay=in,10,,0
I would use FSX but I use FlightGear because it's a project with goals.

Windows 7; Processor: 8 core 4 GHz; 8GB RAM; Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 (a pretty good graphics card if you're wondering)
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Re: Stop crashing, fgfs.exe

Postby Philosopher » Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:53 am

@Hooray: don't think it's due to RM or such - seems like memory or graphics, scenery or aircraft related.

BTW: I discovered I actually do have GBD, just need a password ;-). I'll see what that brings, maybe not these days/this week though.
Thanks,
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Re: Stop crashing, fgfs.exe

Postby Hooray » Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:27 am

that is why I asked questions like "does the error persist after switching <off> aircraft/scenery/route/route manager" ?

If it's a graphics/memory/resource issue, changing the corresponding settings (especially rendering/shaders) should have an effect, i.e. at least allow the flight to proceed a bit farther.

Even just knowing if the same flight succeeds without any scenery being rendered would be helpful, you could just as well reduce visibility to 50m which would ensure that there should be no resource shortage.

Obviously, it is tedious to test all these things, which is why I suggested to 1) provide a flight recorder tape of the whole thing, or 2) at least the corresponding flight plan itself. Nobody in their sane mind is going to spend 20 minutes redoing certain flight segments unless it is made extremely straightforward obviously.

If the same issue shows up when using a different aircraft (ufo), then it's obviously not 777 specific, which would help us...

@OP: Put yourself in our situation: Would you be more likely to reproduce an issue if all the requested info is provided (flight recorder tape, flight plan) or if you had to come up with it yourself? It's simple as that really. Otherwise, it's mostly a matter of downgrading your settings to see if that has an effect or not, see the minimal startup profile detailed at: http://wiki.flightgear.org/Howto:Debugg ... ar_Crashes
Please don't send support requests by PM, instead post your questions on the forum so that all users can contribute and benefit
Thanks & all the best,
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Re: Stop crashing, fgfs.exe

Postby MasteroftheSKIES » Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:18 pm

FG just crashed in the same situation when I reverted to the regular B777. I honestly don't dare to try another aircraft, or I will crash, not FlightGear.

Anyway, here is a picture:

Image

I hope this can provide you guys with some information!
I would use FSX but I use FlightGear because it's a project with goals.

Windows 7; Processor: 8 core 4 GHz; 8GB RAM; Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 (a pretty good graphics card if you're wondering)
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Re: Stop crashing, fgfs.exe

Postby MasteroftheSKIES » Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:23 pm

Can't believe no one noticed this! Look at the last scenery error on all console pictures I've posted:

Image

Image

Image


Skyscraper 01! I hate you! I will find this file in the scenery and delete it.
I would use FSX but I use FlightGear because it's a project with goals.

Windows 7; Processor: 8 core 4 GHz; 8GB RAM; Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 (a pretty good graphics card if you're wondering)
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Re: Stop crashing, fgfs.exe

Postby MasteroftheSKIES » Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:29 pm

I'm slowly deleting you you stupid line that has caused me all these problems and 35 replies to this topic...thanks to whoever first brought up the scenery problem, looks like you were right.

Image


Thanks for all help!
I would use FSX but I use FlightGear because it's a project with goals.

Windows 7; Processor: 8 core 4 GHz; 8GB RAM; Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 (a pretty good graphics card if you're wondering)
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Re: Stop crashing, fgfs.exe  

Postby Gijs » Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:35 pm

Eh, I hope you didn't plan to go through all scenery files like that. The model is present in the scenery database. You either don't have an up to date and complete Models/ directory, or there's a bug preventing FlightGear to read this particular model.

Could you please check your Models/ directory?
Airports: EHAM, EHLE, KSFO
Aircraft: 747-400
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Re: Stop crashing, fgfs.exe

Postby Hooray » Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:40 pm

also, why would a missing model cause a crash ? That would be a clear bug.
Before you remove all references to that model, how about installing the missing models first to see if that fixes the problem ?
If it doesn, please post a follow-up here (or in the tracker) so that people can have a look to see what's going on there
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Re: Stop crashing, fgfs.exe

Postby someguy » Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:16 pm

Speaking as a user with no programming skills, I think most of us just accept that FG crashes randomly, for no apparent reason, and shrug it off. It's not like we paid for it and aren't getting our money's worth; we're happy to play with it for as long as it runs, and we go do something else for awhile when the crashes get too frustrating. It's just a free game, after all.

Let's face it, as long as new eye candy and other features take priority over debugging, FG will always crash, and probably more frequently as the versions roll by. So what? I'm sure debugging is deathly boring, and I cannot blame developers for spending their freely-donated time on something more rewarding and fun than fixing each others' bugs. In truth, I enjoy eye candy as much as anyone, and it's a trade-off I can live with.

To those who do try to fix bugs: thank you for your efforts, and for your patience with newbies who have yet to gain some perspective on this gift from the few to the many.
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Re: Stop crashing, fgfs.exe

Postby Hooray » Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:37 pm

The thing is, that even we -as programmers- do not necessarily understand all the reasons for the increasing number of crashes - sure, many seem to be related to lack of resources (CPU, GPU, RAM, VRAM), but others are clearly related to certain subsystems misbehaving, and their developers not being aware of what's happening under the hood, or even worse: threading issues, i.e. a number of threads running at the same time not being properly synchronized/serialized. These are issues that need to be understood to be solved. And right: debugging and troubleshooting is not as exciting as developing new features.

But first of all, we really need to provide the tools and means to enable non-developers to tell what's going on, i.e. in terms of CPU/GPU/RAM/VRAM resources spent when using certain features, and or aircraft/scenery. We have a number of increasingly complex and well-developed aircraft that are highly popular, such as the 777-200ER for example, but there are quite a few things done inefficiently in some of these aircraft. Likewise, we do have new scenery that's adding more resource usage - and then there's new eye candy features, needing massive amounts of resources. But ultimately, we're lacking the tools to determine what's really happening behind the scenes.
Some of us have been raising this even 2-3 years ago when new features like random buildings made the underlying issues more prominent - but overall, we now have a handful of subsystems that are competing -or even fighting- for resources, without their developers really being aware of what's going on.

So the problem is at least two-fold: New eye-candy features being developed, but also more and more complex modeling and base package development going on (shaders, effects, textures, 3D models). At some point, there's no longer a single culprit to blame, but it's a combination of ill-understood features working in conjunction rendering the simulator basically unusable. Keep in mind that we do have massively popular features like effects or particles, that are known among core developers to be leaking resources (i.e. memory).

Thus, it is too easy to say it's because of certain aircraft (extra500, 777-200) or because of certain features (effects, particles, Nasal, Canvas) - you need to be highly familiar with FG internals to understand what's going on here, and D-LEON has demonstrated that it takes a lot of work and time to end up with useful results.

Basically, we need to expose runtime statistics that monitor resource usages for the main suspects (subsystems) like Nasal, AI traffic, Canvas, but also to monitor scenery/aircraft complexity.

Technically, there's no good reason for FlightGear to crash at all - the main problem is that new -popular- features are added, and that they end up being unmaintained, because their original developers are no longer around, so we are seeing them adopted by non core developers, who are obviously not able to troubleshoot things, and our -few- remaining core developers are obviously overstretched in terms of what they can manage/maintain ob behalf of others - no matter if it's particles, effects or threaded code like the tile manager.
Please don't send support requests by PM, instead post your questions on the forum so that all users can contribute and benefit
Thanks & all the best,
Hooray
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Re: Stop crashing, fgfs.exe

Postby adrian » Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:19 pm

Hooray wrote in Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:37 pm:But ultimately, we're lacking the tools to determine what's really happening behind the scenes.


Eh, it's not actually that dramatic, the tools exist, it may just take some time to run a callgrind or a gdb trace, and it requires some users experienced and willing to do this. Unfortunately, unlike a couple of years ago, there's been a constant stream of Windows users who can't or don't have the tools to do so. I think it's ultimately more of a lack of awareness from the developers. I also kindof miss ThorstenB, who was constantly trawling the bug tracker, even for invalid bug reports. And other devs, which have taken a break, and this has left only a few people to take care of everything - this is hard.
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Re: Stop crashing, fgfs.exe

Postby MasteroftheSKIES » Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:01 pm

Here is the code for the skyscraper_01 model.

Code: Select all
AC3Db
MATERIAL "DefaultWhite" rgb 1 1 1  amb 1 1 1  emis 0 0 0  spec 0.5 0.5 0.5 shi 64  trans 0
OBJECT world
kids 1
OBJECT poly
name "Plane"
texture "building_tile_01.png"
texrep 1 1
numvert 8
30.004257 0 -30.004255
30.004257 0 30.004257
-30.004261 0 30.004252
-30.004246 0 -30.004268
-30.004246 501.101507 -30.004268
-30.004261 501.101507 30.004252
30.004257 501.101507 30.004257
30.004257 501.101507 -30.004255
numsurf 6
SURF 0x00
mat 0
refs 4
0 0.375 0.5
1 0.375 0.4375
2 0.40625 0.4375
3 0.40625 0.5
SURF 0x00
mat 0
refs 4
0 0.0 101.46875
7 0.0 0.0
6 10.125 0.03125
1 10.09375 101.46875
SURF 0x00
mat 0
refs 4
1 0.0 101.46875
6 0.0 0.0
5 10.125 0.03125
2 10.09375 101.46875
SURF 0x00
mat 0
refs 4
2 0.0 101.46875
5 0.0 0.0
4 10.125 0.03125
3 10.09375 101.46875
SURF 0x00
mat 0
refs 4
7 0.0 101.46875
0 0.0 0.0
3 10.125 0.03125
4 10.09375 101.46875
SURF 0x00
mat 0
refs 4
7 0.375 0.5
4 0.375 0.4375
5 0.40625 0.4375
6 0.40625 0.5
kids 0



So, I am not missing the file, it is just...corrupt, I guess. I am not familiar with this programming language, so I can't debug anything. Hopefully, someone can help me locate/remove this bug. Thanks!
Last edited by MasteroftheSKIES on Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I would use FSX but I use FlightGear because it's a project with goals.

Windows 7; Processor: 8 core 4 GHz; 8GB RAM; Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 (a pretty good graphics card if you're wondering)
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