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FG 2.10.0 prerelease for Mac won't start

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Re: FG 2.10.0 prerelease for Mac won't start

Postby VicMar » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:21 am

Fair enough.

Cheers,
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Re: FG 2.10.0 prerelease for Mac won't start

Postby tk_jkg » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:29 pm

I can't get Atlas loaded when selected in the launcher. Cant even find it when looking in the program package.
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Re: FG 2.10.0 prerelease for Mac won't start

Postby zakalawe » Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:11 pm

Atlas isn't supported in this release, sorry - I should remove the option.

To be honest I'm just happy if the main program works at all with no major issues!
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Re: FG 2.10.0 prerelease for Mac won't start

Postby tk_jkg » Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:29 pm

Not in this release, meaning this beta?
Will it not be included in the final Mac 2.10?
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Re: FG 2.10.0 prerelease for Mac won't start

Postby zakalawe » Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:38 pm

Won't be in final - I don't build Atlas, so it's not included. Actually I've never used or run Atlas ever, so I don't even know where to start with it.
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Re: FG 2.10.0 prerelease for Mac won't start

Postby zakalawe » Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:40 pm

Actually, if someone knows where to get an Atlas binary that works, I could just copy it in? Assuming the binary still works on 10.7 and 10.8
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Re: FG 2.10.0 prerelease for Mac won't start

Postby tk_jkg » Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:12 pm

Dont know what binary means here but can this help:
http://atlas.sourceforge.net
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Re: FG 2.10.0 prerelease for Mac won't start

Postby fmg » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:46 pm

Hello,

I just want to report my first experience with the new Mac 2.10.0 release from yesterday. Now the launcher and the program starts.

Testmachine: MacPro 3.2 GHz Quad-Core Xeon, 8GB RAM, MacOS X 10.6.8. ATI Radeon HD 5870.
gl-vendor:ATI Technologies Inc.
gl-version:2.1 ATI-1.6.36
gl-renderer:ATI Radeon HD 5870 OpenGL Engine
gl-shading-language-version:1.20


Frame rate with my standard test setup 24/25 fps, with skydome scattering on 19/20 fps.
In FG 2.6-r319 it is 29/30fps. So there might be room for improvements hopefully?
Skydome scattering now is way better. Close to perfect. Disadvantages are the sometimes unnatural sharp horizon edge, the loss in frame rate and that the water shader don't work. If you have precipitation in the dark this is displayed bright white an looks improper. Nice if the brightness could be adjusted according to the global one. But this would be a long term goal?
Is there an old version of the terminal-building at KSFO in the package? Looks like FG 2.0 or earlier.

Now here some issues that I found:

1. All numeric-pad keys don't work except enter. This was fixed first time in FG 2.0.0. The bug reappeared with FG 2.6 RC1 and was fixed in the final 2.6 release. Then it come up again with FG 2.8.1.

2. If you resize the FG window after startup FG remains in the previous size and the rest is filled with graphic jam. This came up with FG 2.6 RC1 and was corrected in the final 2.6 release. It won't happen if you use the command from the menu. But then the mac-menu-bar rival the program menu-bar if you go not carefully there with the mouse cursor.

3. The AOA value in the third of the cycling HUDs shows always 0. This came up with FG 2.6.

4. Some properties aren't saved though Save preferences on exit is activated. That are the HUD properties (Enable 3D, Transparent, Antialiased) and the Terrain texture scheme setting in the Rendering Options.

5. View options button under Other dialog in the launcher don't work.

6. The new Airport dialog is surely a great improvement in means of a user-friendly GUI but it takes 43 seconds on my system to load it the first time. During this time the sim is blocked. Maybe it is better for the first time to load nearer airports only. Then instead of the <100nm buttons you could have a >100nm button if like to see all. And if you know the airport code already you type it in and go there without loading the whole list? Otherwise I love it. The airport map with the parking positions displayed is great!
But if it could not be speeded up I would like to have the old Place aircraft on ground dialog back as an alternative option.

7. Rembrandt is still unusable on my Mac. One frame every 4-5 seconds and it looks weird.

8. The aircraft preview picture in the GUI-launcher looks like behind gray fog. This was introduced with FG 2.4 and stayed till now.

9. I was not able to type in a path for the terrasync-scenery, nor could I choose one via a dialog by clicking one down-arrow in the scenery-download dialog window.

Hope that helps a bit to get a good release.

f-)
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Re: FG 2.10.0 prerelease for Mac won't start

Postby zakalawe » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:21 pm

fmg wrote in Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:46 pm:Skydome scattering now is way better. Close to perfect. Disadvantages are the sometimes unnatural sharp horizon edge, the loss in frame rate and that the water shader don't work. If you have precipitation in the dark this is displayed bright white an looks improper. Nice if the brightness could be adjusted according to the global one. But this would be a long term goal?

I'll let Thorsten spea to this one, I think

fmg wrote in Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:46 pm:1. All numeric-pad keys don't work except enter. This was fixed first time in FG 2.0.0. The bug reappeared with FG 2.6 RC1 and was fixed in the final 2.6 release. Then it come up again with FG 2.8.1.

I am confused by this one - do you know which patch fixed it? It's obviously something in osgViewer but I've applied all his patches I can find without luck. Anyway please file a ticket in the tracker and assign to me.

fmg wrote in Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:46 pm:2. If you resize the FG window after startup FG remains in the previous size and the rest is filled with graphic jam. This came up with FG 2.6 RC1 and was corrected in the final 2.6 release. It won't happen if you use the command from the menu. But then the mac-menu-bar rival the program menu-bar if you go not carefully there with the mouse cursor.

I don't see this one at all, very strange.

fmg wrote in Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:46 pm:4. Some properties aren't saved though Save preferences on exit is activated. That are the HUD properties (Enable 3D, Transparent, Antialiased) and the Terrain texture scheme setting in the Rendering Options.

Likely need archive flag set, please file a bug in the tracker, and ideally submit a patch - it's an XML change only I think

fmg wrote in Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:46 pm:5. View options button under Other dialog in the launcher don't work.

I should probably just delete the buttons.

fmg wrote in Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:46 pm:6. The new Airport dialog is surely a great improvement in means of a user-friendly GUI but it takes 43 seconds on my system to load it the first time. During this time the sim is blocked. Maybe it is better for the first time to load nearer airports only. Then instead of the <100nm buttons you could have a >100nm button if like to see all. And if you know the airport code already you type it in and go there without loading the whole list? Otherwise I love it. The airport map with the parking positions displayed is great!
But if it could not be speeded up I would like to have the old Place aircraft on ground dialog back as an alternative option.

I thought I'd fixed the delay, does it happen very launch for you? Anyway please file a bug, assign to me, and report any details that make it happen.

fmg wrote in Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:46 pm:8. The aircraft preview picture in the GUI-launcher looks like behind gray fog. This was introduced with FG 2.4 and stayed till now.

Another launch feature I'll probably just remove, I don't have time to maintain it

fmg wrote in Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:46 pm:9. I was not able to type in a path for the terrasync-scenery, nor could I choose one via a dialog by clicking one down-arrow in the scenery-download dialog window.

You should be able to change it by setting a command line option - but it sounds like you were expecting something else?

Thanks for the feedback, please file the major bugs in the tracker, since they may not get fixed this time around. The AOA and save-on-exit issues, you can probably fix yourself and send me a patch - they would be kind of low priority for me!
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Re: FG 2.10.0 prerelease for Mac won't start

Postby Hooray » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:36 pm

The new Airport dialog is surely a great improvement in means of a user-friendly GUI but it takes 43 seconds on my system to load it the first time. During this time the sim is blocked. Maybe it is better for the first time to load nearer airports only.


This is almost certainly related to the new NavData cache, some users reported this before - and whenever we enabled the debugging code, it showed SQLite related code running at that time.

I don't know if the mac binary has been built with debugging support, but if so, see: http://wiki.flightgear.org/Built-in_Profiler
The canvas/map wrappers still have debugging code added - so it's trivial to check what's going on as long as you can use the profiling fgcommands, for instructions, please see: Subject: Select Airport menu has long delay to display

Hooray wrote:you'll probably want to take another look at the thread that sa7k linked to: it contains a patch that I posted, which adds two new fgcommands: profiler-start and profiler-stop - these can be used to get extremely fine-grained performance information on specific parts of FG. You can easily bind them to keyboard hotkeys, or simply use Nasal's fgcommand() to call them during instantiation of the dialog.

That should tell us exactly what's taking so long there, so that we can further optimize things.

Note, that you'll need to install Google PerfTools first: https://code.google.com/p/gperftools/?redir=1
And then apply the patch here: http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewto ... 50#p166967
Next, open $FG_ROOT/gui/dialogs/airports.xml and add fgcommand("profiler-start"); to the beginning of the Nasal <open> block: https://gitorious.org/fg/fgdata/blobs/m ... xml#line39

Next, add fgcommand("profiler-stop"); to the end of the same block, or if that's not conclusive, to the beginning of the canvas' Nasal (load) section in $FG_ROOT/Nasal/canvas/generic-canvas-map.xml, i.e. around here: https://gitorious.org/fg/fgdata/blobs/m ... xml#line84

You may also want to use Nasal's systime() command to see how long the instantiation actually takes.

Afterwards, you can safely close FG (or run fgcommand("exit")) and inspect the file fgfs.profile created in the CWD from where you started the whole thing.
To actually process the file, use pprof: pprof --text /path/to/fgfs /path/to/fgfs.profile > profiling.results

When doing this here on a really old computer from 2006, I'm getting the following results, which illustrate that James' new SQLite-based NavDB cache is the main culprit here, not the Canvas:
Code: Select all
      47  29.6%  29.6%       47  29.6% sqlite3VdbeExec
      22  13.8%  43.4%       22  13.8% __read_nocancel
       8   5.0%  48.4%        8   5.0% lseek64
       7   4.4%  52.8%        7   4.4% sqlite3VdbeMemRelease
       4   2.5%  55.3%        4   2.5% likeFunc
       4   2.5%  57.9%        4   2.5% sqlite3DbFree
       4   2.5%  60.4%        4   2.5% sqlite3VdbeMemMove
       3   1.9%  62.3%        3   1.9% _IO_str_pbackfail
       3   1.9%  64.2%        3   1.9% fetchPayload
       3   1.9%  66.0%        3   1.9% sqlite3BtreeCursorHasMoved
       3   1.9%  67.9%        3   1.9% sqlite3VdbeMemGrow
       3   1.9%  69.8%        3   1.9% sqlite3VdbeRealValue
       2   1.3%  71.1%        2   1.3% 0063154b
       2   1.3%  72.3%        2   1.3% btreeParseCellPtr
       2   1.3%  73.6%        2   1.3% memcpy
       2   1.3%  74.8%        2   1.3% pcache1Fetch
       2   1.3%  76.1%        2   1.3% sqlite3BtreeDataFetch
       2   1.3%  77.4%        2   1.3% sqlite3BtreeDataSize
       2   1.3%  78.6%        2   1.3% sqlite3ValueText
       2   1.3%  79.9%        2   1.3% sqlite3VdbeMemNulTerminate
       2   1.3%  81.1%        2   1.3% sqlite3VdbeSerialTypeLen
       2   1.3%  82.4%        2   1.3% sqlite3_mutex_leave
       2   1.3%  83.6%        2   1.3% sqlite3_value_text

Regarding the intepretation of these columns, see: http://google-perftools.googlecode.com/ ... ofile.html
  • Number of profiling samples in this function
  • Percentage of profiling samples in this function
  • Percentage of profiling samples in the functions printed so far
  • Number of profiling samples in this function and its callees
  • Percentage of profiling samples in this function and its callees
  • Function name

Note that this seems like a known issue according to: https://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bu ... ?id=894#c5
I'd suggest to also post your info there.

Please share your results with us.

When you do post your findings here, please also post your system/hardware specs and any console warnings or errors you may see while using the airports.xml dialog.

HTH

Thanks
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Re: FG 2.10.0 prerelease for Mac won't start

Postby zakalawe » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:00 pm

Right, the problem is it's fixed for me, so I need some more data on why it's still sometimes slow for some people. It's certainly something in the cache config, I just don't know what makes it go from absolutely fine to taking 30 seconds+. To be clear, there's no need to restrict the search to 100nm or similar - when the code is working as intended, even the whole list can be searched in less than 100msec. What I need is some help understanding exactly when it goes wrong, and if it's random, repeatable, or linked to configuration.

(Just like many other bugs...)
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Re: FG 2.10.0 prerelease for Mac won't start

Postby fmg » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:22 am

Thanks zakalawe,

I like to support you as good as I can. But I'm only a poor user and no programer. So can mostly only report what I see. Maybe if you can give me a hint where to look or guide me what to do I can offer you more helpful informations.

I tried to post bug-reports in the tracker before. But this failed since I was not able to get a Google-account. I wasn't happy that I have to create a Google account just for reporting bugs at all, but I give it a try. In the end Google ask me for my cell-phone number. Since I don't own a cell phone I stuck there. I would be happy if there would be a possibility creating bug-reports maybe with the normal forum account.
zakalawe wrote in Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:21 pm:
fmg wrote in Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:46 pm:1. All numeric-pad keys don't work except enter. This was fixed first time in FG 2.0.0. The bug reappeared with FG 2.6 RC1 and was fixed in the final 2.6 release. Then it come up again with FG 2.8.1.

I am confused by this one - do you know which patch fixed it? It's obviously something in osgViewer but I've applied all his patches I can find without luck. Anyway please file a ticket in the tracker and assign to me.

Sorry: For this one I have unfortunately no idea. Otherwise I would tell. All I can say that Tat was able to fix it within one week from the 2.6 RC to the final release. Just made a test with FG 1.0. There the key-pad worked (but maybe not totally as it should??). It was brocken afterwords until FG 2.0. So could be something with osg?
zakalawe wrote in Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:21 pm:
fmg wrote in Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:46 pm:2. If you resize the FG window after startup FG remains in the previous size and the rest is filled with graphic jam. This came up with FG 2.6 RC1 and was corrected in the final 2.6 release. It won't happen if you use the command from the menu. But then the mac-menu-bar rival the program menu-bar if you go not carefully there with the mouse cursor.

I don't see this one at all, very strange.

IIRC this was reported from several users during 2.6 RC testing. I think Tat mentioned that it has something to do with the cacoa or carbon version of the OSG-viewer. Hopefully there are useful information in this thread: http://flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=15395&sid=0f231da2b3dedca48e343c4fc3a421c6

zakalawe wrote in Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:21 pm:
fmg wrote in Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:46 pm:5. View options button under Other dialog in the launcher don't work.

I should probably just delete the buttons.

I found this button quite useful and used it often. Would be sorry if it's gone.
zakalawe wrote in Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:21 pm:
fmg wrote in Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:46 pm:6. The new Airport dialog is surely a great improvement in means of a user-friendly GUI but it takes 43 seconds on my system to load it the first time. During this time the sim is blocked. Maybe it is better for the first time to load nearer airports only. Then instead of the <100nm buttons you could have a >100nm button if like to see all. And if you know the airport code already you type it in and go there without loading the whole list? Otherwise I love it. The airport map with the parking positions displayed is great!
But if it could not be speeded up I would like to have the old Place aircraft on ground dialog back as an alternative option.

I thought I'd fixed the delay, does it happen very launch for you? Anyway please file a bug, assign to me, and report any details that make it happen.

It only happened if I opened the dialog for the first time during a session. If I call it again the delay was gone until I start FG new. But it was repeatable when I started again.
zakalawe wrote in Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:21 pm:
fmg wrote in Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:46 pm:8. The aircraft preview picture in the GUI-launcher looks like behind gray fog. This was introduced with FG 2.4 and stayed till now.

Another launch feature I'll probably just remove, I don't have time to maintain it

I think I prefer the gray variant, instead off having no picture. If that is the choice please leave it as it is.
zakalawe wrote in Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:21 pm:
fmg wrote in Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:46 pm:9. I was not able to type in a path for the terrasync-scenery, nor could I choose one via a dialog by clicking one down-arrow in the scenery-download dialog window.

You should be able to change it by setting a command line option - but it sounds like you were expecting something else?

In the scenery download dialog that you can afford in the menu there is a field that looks like you can choose your destination there (what would be great). Under the command line options I only saw one for the normal scenery-path but no one for the terra-sync directory. That's not most important. I think if I look through all the prefs-files I could fix it myself. But would be great for new user I think.
zakalawe wrote in Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:21 pm:Thanks for the feedback, please file the major bugs in the tracker, since they may not get fixed this time around. The AOA and save-on-exit issues, you can probably fix yourself and send me a patch - they would be kind of low priority for me!

Hope so :?

f-)
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Re: FG 2.10.0 prerelease for Mac won't start

Postby Hooray » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:33 am

If you can run fgfs inside a debugger session (i.e. the gdb equivalent on mac?), you could use CTRL + C to interrupt the process while opening the dialog and use "bt" to post a backtrace here, that would tell us what's going on.

Another option would be increasing the verbosity of SQLite, but I'm not sure if that can be accomplished via environment variables or if needs an updated binary.
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Re: FG 2.10.0 prerelease for Mac won't start

Postby fmg » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:57 am

Hooray wrote in Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:33 am:If you can run fgfs inside a debugger session (i.e. the gdb equivalent on mac?), you could use CTRL + C to interrupt the process while opening the dialog and use "bt" to post a backtrace here, that would tell us what's going on.

Hi Hooray,

looks like that there is no official mac-release from gdb. Not even dbx. Can I use something from xcode for that? Or can someone recommend a debugger for mac?
Found this stuff http://www.affinic.com/?page_id=109. Looks like it is based on gdb. Is this useful and trustworthy? Don't want to spoil my system :?. And sorry: but I have little or close to no idea what I will be doing then. So I think I need some guidance.
Hooray wrote in Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:33 am:Another option would be increasing the verbosity of SQLite, but I'm not sure if that can be accomplished via environment variables or if needs an updated binary.

:?: :roll:

f-)
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Re: FG 2.10.0 prerelease for Mac won't start

Postby zakalawe » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:54 pm

I've got the 'other -> view options' feature back now, and I think aircraft preview can work again (asking Fred some questions, models with Rembrandt support currently look wrong).

The keypad issue, is the obvious big one to fix.

BTW does the 'ATI hack' fix the viewport issue? I never had a problem with my Radeon 3870 or 5770 on Mac, so I'm surprised you are still encountering it.
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