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Liveries

Postby sgofferj » Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:41 pm

Short understanding question:
1.) As of now, FG does not transmit the livery data through the network at MP, right? Other must have the livery installed on their machine to see it on my plane?
2.) This is not going to change in 2.6?
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Re: Liveries

Postby HHS » Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:10 pm

1.) That's correct.
2.)No.

When a plane gets some new liveries (Gonneybird is quite fast), we will likely some Mbs to transmit and load. I don't think that will be good for fps-perfomance.
Mp is already lagging for a whole quite a lot of people.
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Re: Liveries

Postby Gijs » Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:45 am

We could come up with some TerraSync like system. The mp servers already process livery file names/paths and we already have a database set up. That will relieve the mp servers (the don't transmit the actual livery files) and will prevent people from sending/receiving crap...

It's not something I've got the time/skills for at the moment, but if someone would give it a try. I'm more than happy to provide database support.
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Re: Liveries

Postby gooneybird » Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:54 pm

Is It possible to use the Livery xml file to load one texture file for your aircraft and another for MP use?
If so we could have two livery files, hi-res and low-res, with the low-res version loaded for MP aircraft.

At the distances generally seen on MP there is not a lot of visual difference between the texture files, The following screen shot has one 777 with 4096x4096 (1,591k) texture file and the other with a 512x512 (138k) file, It is obvious which is which but surprisingly not that obvious at that distance.

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Re: Liveries

Postby sgofferj » Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:17 pm

Gijs wrote in Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:45 am:and will prevent people from sending/receiving crap...

Hmja, I don't think, that should be a reason. I strongly oppose any kind of central censorship or anything similar. If somebody wants to fly a plane with a playboy bunny painted on that, it's their business.

I wasn't going to make this an official proposal but I just thought, it would be nice to have the possibility to have an individual livery without the whole world having to download it AND without the whole world being able to use it also. I have read that there has been some trouble in the MP world with people misusing other people's callsigns...
Well, if I paint my Cessna like my (imaginary :D) real world Cessna is painted (including the registration!), and only I have the livery on my disk, it's relatively hard for people to pretend they are me, at least on close range.

But, as I said, just a thought...

Technically, what I would do, IF liveries would be transmitted over MP... I would FG have resize the livery to an acceptable size, e.g. like gooneybird suggested, 512x512 and maybe recompress it at a slightly lower quality. As you can't change the aircraft, once FG is started, this could be done at startup as part of the aircraft loading process and the livery could be submitted to the MP server on connection. With current usual DSL speeds, 100-something k are not really a lot...

On the long run, I think, the FG MP network should be redesigned to a peer to peer network with the servers only indexing. That would take much load and traffic off the servers and would also be more robust, especially if any PtP node also acts as kinda local server, knowing what's going on, let's say. 250 miles around it.
Kademlia might be an interesting architecture for this.
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Re: Liveries

Postby Gijs » Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:27 pm

sgofferj wrote in Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:17 pm:
Gijs wrote in Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:45 am:and will prevent people from sending/receiving crap...

Hmja, I don't think, that should be a reason. I strongly oppose any kind of central censorship or anything similar. If somebody wants to fly a plane with a playboy bunny painted on that, it's their business.

I was not talking about such "crap", just see for yourself: http://liveries.flightgear.org/liveries.php?id=288 :)
But if we set up some system to send/receive files, we better be sure that those are only livery files and don't touch anything else...

it would be nice to have the possibility to have an individual livery without the whole world having to download it AND without the whole world being able to use it also.
That's only possible if you don't want others to see your livery. You cannot display your livery on someone else's computer, without giving him/her the livery file...
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Re: Liveries

Postby sgofferj » Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:08 pm

Gijs wrote in Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:27 pm:That's only possible if you don't want others to see your livery. You cannot display your livery on someone else's computer, without giving him/her the livery file...

Jaaaa, you know, what I meant :wink:
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Re: Liveries

Postby kyokoyama » Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:45 pm

Gijs wrote in Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:27 pm:That's only possible if you don't want others to see your livery. You cannot display your livery on someone else's computer, without giving him/her the livery file...

What about having something like a temporary cache file to download new liveries (only if you specify either in-sim or through an XML file that you want to transmit them over the internet), which will be cleared out every time you shut down FlightGear?
In otherwords, could this be achieved by making something like a temporary storage file?
Then technically you're giving the person the livery file without completely releasing it. Would something like that work?
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Re: Liveries

Postby someguy » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:00 am

I can't see any good coming from automatic livery fetching. Lag is already so bad that some of us are deleting the highly-detailed aircraft so we can use MP at all. When the fps drops below 5 and the frame interval exceeds 500 ms, it's just not possible to fly with any precision. I was hoping that the final 2.6 release would be better, but it's not.

Really, who gives a hoot what livery you're using? Not me, for sure. I probably deleted your plane anyway. If and when the AI/Aircraft models work as they're supposed to, and there's an AI model for every plane in the sim, THEN we can start thinking about the next way to spoil MP for everyone else.
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