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Space Shuttle Video - Return to Launch site full video

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Re: Space Shuttle Video - Return to Launch site full video

Postby GinGin » Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:01 pm

Indeed, you can have a thorough look there:

http://www.science-and-fiction.org/science/leo_targeting.html


For a phasing video, there will be a lot of ellipse ( boring indeed )
The nice thing can be to show a bit of theory about how to planify burn and catch up rate to be at a specific time at a specific distance before beginning Lambert phase
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Re: Space Shuttle Video - Return to Launch site full video

Postby Gomendio » Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:28 pm

Well, many thanks for the tips. I'm still find extremely difficult the orbital mechanics and the Av burns required in order to
generate a valid solutions for the Rendezvous and phasing.

Apart from the GPC config phase before stepping into OPS 2, I feeling pretty good with the rest of the Nominal and non nominal procedures relating to the orbitter.
Being a commercial pilot puts me in a more friendly environment with all the issued related to the cockpit operations. But certainly, my achilles point is the orbital mechanics and
how to create a valid image in my mind to be able to deeply understand what I'am doing, in terms of phasing and rendez.

I'll take a deep look to the LEO targeting and the topics raised in the website.

The FG space Shuttle project is just a wonderful flying machine...
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Re: Space Shuttle Video - Return to Launch site full video

Postby Thorsten » Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:47 pm

certainly, my achilles point is the orbital mechanics and
how to create a valid image in my mind to be able to deeply understand what I'am doing, in terms of phasing and rendez.


I wonder - is there a good introduction to analytical orbital mechanics somewhere? LEO targeting is sort of the advanced version of that, dealing with numerical solutions.

Admittedly (being a theroretical physicist with a long-term fascination for spaceflight) I've myself 'always' known orbital mechanics *at least before the internet...) so I've never been looking for such an introduction. Of course the FG Shuttle Flight Manual has some material on the topic...
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Re: Space Shuttle Video - Return to Launch site full video

Postby GinGin » Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:05 pm

Gomendio wrote in Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:28 pm:But certainly, my achilles point is the orbital mechanics and
how to create a valid image in my mind to be able to deeply understand what I'am doing, in terms of phasing and rendez.



Completely Normal.
I have a comparaison in head, as you'r a pilot also.
Remember when we learnt IFR with needles and we had to mentally create a 2 D image just with a HSI and some needles.
It takes time, but after, you create that picture without thinking anymore :)

Same for the 3 D and movement in space.

Here is a good book

https://er.jsc.nasa.gov/seh/spaceflt.pdf

Get use to Basic Orbital parameters that are always mentionned ( and understand well what the angles represent, really helpful)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_elements

Some Orbiter begginer videos, valuable for any space sim

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOxpvqrqLAo

Also Thorsten manual depicts really well a lot of interesting things.

I advise you to go through Orbiter also.
A sand box where you can easily play with your orbit parameters, see directly what a prograde burn do, a radial one etc
You can see directly the effect through MFD where you can appreciate what a change of velocity is doing on the orbit shape etc

If you are french speaker, I got some nice links.


Rendez vous is not that hard when you put all the small bricks together and say I want to go there, let's have a plan .
As it takes time to slow down and come to the target by matching its orbit, it is just a lot of planifications
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Re: Space Shuttle Video - Return to Launch site full video

Postby Gomendio » Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:43 pm

Hi to all again;

Sometimes I just keep a low key in terms of posting and chatting into the forums, just reading past topics the vast majority of the times sorted the issue out. But in this case rising my doubts in this forum and reading your tips helped me tremendously.

I've spent nearly 5 months reading all kind of material regarding orbital mechanics, the Thorstens' deluxe manual , wiki pages and other stuff
but the tipping point without a hint of the doubt has been the Orbiter "sanbox" trainer. After playing a bit with it all the pieces have came down neatly into the puzzle, without too much effort. Despite being not the kind of sim i wanted to spend too much with ( the SSU v4v5 really rises the bar on the sim) it definitely helps in generating a better understanding of the orbital mechanics. Now PEG-4 and PEG-7 into ops2 and ops3 burns, phasing and Rendez are depicted more clearly in my mind., and the @T and orbit H are parameters that NOW have much more clarity, in terms of real impact on what you want to do in orbital phase.
But I think that the theoretical part of it has to come hand in hand with the practical one (orbiter sandbox). After all, all the time invested in reading material has not been useless;-)

Also, i'm having too much fun playing with the off nominal situation files during the ascent windows for RTLS, TAL and ATO. The plethora of failures available to emulate are pretty much alike that the ones we might find under our Level D sim checride LOFT twice a year on the b737.
We have a QRH with all the troubleshooting to perfrom under Non normal scenarios.

Has the real orbitter a QRH-alike doc to review in case of off nominal situs?

Many thanks for your support and your tips;-)
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Re: Space Shuttle Video - Return to Launch site full video

Postby GinGin » Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:28 pm

Perfect if you see clearier :)
It can be boring to try too much complex things ( like rdv) without the basics .
Orbiter is a fantastic sim as you saw.
I played both, and it greatly helped for FG ( which is using non spherical Gravity up to J3 harmonics like in Orbiter with Non spherical gravity ticked in parameters)
Still remember when I recreated Voyager journey with precise timeline.


For the QRH, there is one ( or several).
I spoke about that there:

https://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=34810

You can have a look also in the SCOM part 6 ( Emergency procedures) and part 3 ( flight data files/ off nominal documents)


A kind of loss of system A and almost B for the Shuttle :)

https://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=35048
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