Board index FlightGear Development Spaceflight

Soyuz-MS for FlightGear

Discussion about development and usage of spacecraft

Soyuz-MS for FlightGear

Postby lexperience » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:45 am

Hello!
I am an engineer of the Russian space agency, I am also a very big fan of FlightGear.
For many years I have been collecting information about the Soyuz spacecraft and now its high point has arrived. I'm going to develop and make the first in the world (yes, yes, yes))) computerized model of the 11F732 Soyuz-MS product! I am sure that this will be very cool, since the plans are not just to make a 3D model, but also to integrate into it the software of the Union, the source code of which I have (the Neptun-ME system). This is all cool, of course, but there is one " :lol: small" problem. I have never done this before. I am an information display systems engineer and have not been involved in the development of games and modifications to them, but I am a confident 3D MAX user and I am learning C programming languages. Since I myself will not do it, I am writing to you, people who can certainly help me. I want to know where to start and what action plan I should develop. Regarding information: I have ship drawings, its diagrams and drawings (by the way, I also have all the drawings of the ISS), sounds recorded in the ship throughout the flight, algorithms of all systems, the source code of the software, the 3D model of the ship and much another.
I am going to deal with the project seriously and carefully.
User avatar
lexperience
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:29 am
Location: Russia, Korolev
OS: QNX

Re: Soyuz-MS for FlightGear

Postby lexperience » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:21 am

How the model will look like.
1) View.
The view will be from the central chair (or as it is called in the Union the "Main Lodgement") in which the ship's Commander is located, but it will also be possible to switch between 4 types:
- left seat;
- right seat;
- orbital module(position near the hatch);
- orbital module (position near the toilet);

each type has its own zone to which the operator can “reach out”, if he wants to interact with an object that is outside this zone, then the operator “moves” to the place located in this zone.
--------------
1-st view (Central seat - "CS")
Image
2-st view (Left seat - "LS")
Image
3-st view (Right seat - "RS")
Image
4-st view (Hatch)
Image
5-st view (WC)
Image

2) Management.
The union provides several options for controlling the position of the ship in space.
 - the first method and the main one is the Automation of the On-Board Digital Computer. The control of the position of the ship takes place through the Neptun-ME console on special display formats in INPU. In this case, the physical controls are not involved. This is a regular version of management (I will tell you more about the principles of governing the Union later).
 - the second way is Manual Steering, it is in fact divided into two types - Manual Orientation in the Discrete Circuit (RO DK) where the computer helps us and Manual Orientation in the Analog Circuit (RO AK) where the signals from the control knobs go directly. In this case, we directly control the ship without using the ship's computer system.

The question of how to transfer controls to the keyboard. In the Union, two handles are used to control the movement of the center of mass and create angular velocities:
Motion Control Knob and
Orientation Control Knob.
Image
User avatar
lexperience
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:29 am
Location: Russia, Korolev
OS: QNX

Re: Soyuz-MS for FlightGear

Postby lexperience » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:48 am

So that you would have an idea about the spacecraft systems and its work, I spread for you a specialized textbook, which is given to astronauts and astronauts in the process of training and preparing for flight. The textbook is not new (I cannot lay out a new one because it is prohibited by the law on state secrets, and this is all I can publish here to the public with the permission of departmental structures and I can even provide documents). All information in the textbook is relevant and differs from the present only in some details. If you have any questions you can contact me.
link: Soyuz Manual
User avatar
lexperience
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:29 am
Location: Russia, Korolev
OS: QNX

Re: Soyuz-MS for FlightGear

Postby GinGin » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:50 am

Outstanding project .
Thanks for the manual , Interesting to have insight in Russian rocket .
Do you plan to have the last glass cockpit Soyuz version
GinGin
 
Posts: 648
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:41 am
Location: Paris
Callsign: Gingin

Re: Soyuz-MS for FlightGear

Postby lexperience » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:02 am

In reality, most of the control time (in normal flight mode) astronauts work at the Neptun-ME console (product index PSA-2-ME 11F732). The method of working with the Neptun-ME console (hereinafter we will call it the Descent Apparatus Control Panel -) is described in a separate document which I also publish here. These documents are published for the first time on the Internet.
User avatar
lexperience
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:29 am
Location: Russia, Korolev
OS: QNX

Re: Soyuz-MS for FlightGear

Postby lexperience » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:04 am

GinGin wrote in Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:50 am:Outstanding project .
Thanks for the manual , Interesting to have insight in Russian rocket .
Do you plan to have the last glass cockpit Soyuz version

Yes, I have the Soyuz itself))) So I'm going to do the whole cabin.
User avatar
lexperience
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:29 am
Location: Russia, Korolev
OS: QNX

Re: Soyuz-MS for FlightGear

Postby lexperience » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:06 am

So. A question such as ergonomically beneficial to implement the user interface of the console to work with him, provided that it will be necessary to interact with several orags, as well as control various parameters.
User avatar
lexperience
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:29 am
Location: Russia, Korolev
OS: QNX

Re: Soyuz-MS for FlightGear

Postby lexperience » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:10 am

I propose a direct action (interaction with the control buttons on the virtual console itself in the 3D cockpit). Plus: full visual control over the situation and area of responsibility, convenience and speed of interaction using control.
Minus: Since the INPU panel (Integrated Control Panel) is small in size and information is displayed on it on a small screen, when solving certain tasks (monitoring the dynamics at the docking through format 44, monitoring the descent mode on the RUN format, etc.) the operator will be difficult to perceive the information. All this can be compensated in several ways. The first is zoom. Moving to the object with the mouse wheel helps to visually enlarge it, which will allow a better view of the element / screen. The second way out of the situation is the 2D panel. The second method is used in the Cosmonauts Training Center. There is no 3d cockpit as such, only the external environment. All control panels are presented in the form of 2D panels from which the operator works, but I suggest that when you click the left mouse button on the left or right INPU screen, display the window with its 2D panel. How difficult it is realizable tell me yourself.
User avatar
lexperience
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:29 am
Location: Russia, Korolev
OS: QNX

Re: Soyuz-MS for FlightGear

Postby lexperience » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:22 am

User avatar
lexperience
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:29 am
Location: Russia, Korolev
OS: QNX

Re: Soyuz-MS for FlightGear

Postby lexperience » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:26 am

So, dear, offer your options where to start, let's develop a plan of action like that. Who is ready to do this? I am ready for everything, but I will not extend this project alone.
User avatar
lexperience
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:29 am
Location: Russia, Korolev
OS: QNX

Re: Soyuz-MS for FlightGear

Postby lexperience » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:42 am

This is what the INPU window looks like on the instructor’s computer at the cosmonaut training center. To the question of the implementation of the 2D screen INPU.
Image
Image
User avatar
lexperience
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:29 am
Location: Russia, Korolev
OS: QNX

Re: Soyuz-MS for FlightGear

Postby lexperience » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:52 am

A question on a mathematical model of flight dynamics, in what form should it be?
User avatar
lexperience
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:29 am
Location: Russia, Korolev
OS: QNX

Re: Soyuz-MS for FlightGear

Postby AndersG » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:52 pm

lexperience wrote in Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:52 am:A question on a mathematical model of flight dynamics, in what form should it be?


With FlightGear you will probably use JSBSim, there are manuals:
A somewhat current JSBSim manual.
The old JSBSim manual (2011).
There might be newer parts I have not found.

I suppose Thorsten Renk might be the best person to ask for simulating spacecraft in JSBSim. As most people around here or on the mailing list he is a volunteer so the amount of time he can spend on whatever is very much his own choice.
Callsign: SE-AG
Aircraft (uhm...): Submarine Scout, Zeppelin NT, ZF Navy free balloon, Nordstern, Hindenburg, Short Empire flying-boat, ZNP-K, North Sea class, MTB T21 class, U.S.S. Monitor, MFI-9B, Type UB I submarine, Gokstad ship, Renault FT.
AndersG
 
Posts: 2435
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:20 am
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Callsign: SE-AG
OS: Debian GNU Linux

Re: Soyuz-MS for FlightGear

Postby lexperience » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:07 pm

AndersG wrote in Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:52 pm:
lexperience wrote in Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:52 am:A question on a mathematical model of flight dynamics, in what form should it be?


With FlightGear you will probably use JSBSim, there are manuals:
A somewhat current JSBSim manual.
The old JSBSim manual (2011).
There might be newer parts I have not found.

I suppose Thorsten Renk might be the best person to ask for simulating spacecraft in JSBSim. As most people around here or on the mailing list he is a volunteer so the amount of time he can spend on whatever is very much his own choice.


Immediately there is another question. The Soyuz ship consists of 3 parts (modules), while in fact the aerodynamic forces affect the ship only twice during its entire flight, this is when launching to Oriba by the Launch Vehicle (the impact of incoming air flows on the docking unit) and when returning to the ground when the passage of the dense layers of the atmosphere. In this case, only the descent vehicle returns to the ground. It turns out that I need to model and calculate all both options? I give you a tutorial on these phases of flight, maybe you can find these parameters there

Descent control System Part I, II, III - LINK1 , LINK2 , LINK3
User avatar
lexperience
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:29 am
Location: Russia, Korolev
OS: QNX

Re: Soyuz-MS for FlightGear

Postby AndersG » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:00 pm

lexperience wrote in Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:07 pm:Immediately there is another question. The Soyuz ship consists of 3 parts (modules), while in fact the aerodynamic forces affect the ship only twice during its entire flight, this is when launching to Oriba by the Launch Vehicle (the impact of incoming air flows on the docking unit) and when returning to the ground when the passage of the dense layers of the atmosphere. In this case, only the descent vehicle returns to the ground. It turns out that I need to model and calculate all both options? I give you a tutorial on these phases of flight, maybe you can find these parameters there


Yes, you'll have to model the different configurations, both the aerodynamics (when it exist) and the mass properties and so on. You could start to look into how the shuttle is modelled for FlightGear to see how these kind of problems where solved there - but, yes, that is a rather complex thing.

For me myself I already have a small set of aircraft, airships, ships and some land vehicle that I have started way back and I very very slowly try to develop further. Spacecraft are not really a part of my interest.
Callsign: SE-AG
Aircraft (uhm...): Submarine Scout, Zeppelin NT, ZF Navy free balloon, Nordstern, Hindenburg, Short Empire flying-boat, ZNP-K, North Sea class, MTB T21 class, U.S.S. Monitor, MFI-9B, Type UB I submarine, Gokstad ship, Renault FT.
AndersG
 
Posts: 2435
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:20 am
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Callsign: SE-AG
OS: Debian GNU Linux

Next

Return to Spaceflight

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest