Board index FlightGear Development Spaceflight

Space Shuttle - Development

Discussion about development and usage of spacecraft

Re: Space Shuttle - Development

Postby wlbragg » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:04 pm

Your welcome. You don't happen to have access to a video or picture or link of exactly what we should be seeing in the camera view as far as a target alignment that would be on the RMS?
Kansas(2-27-15)/Ohio/Midwest scenery development.
KEQA (2-27-15), 3AU, KRCP Airport Layout
Intel i5 3570K AMDRX480
wlbragg
 
Posts: 6035
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:31 pm
Location: Kansas (Tornado Alley), USA
Callsign: WC2020
Version: next
OS: Win10/Linux/AMDRX480

Re: Space Shuttle - Development

Postby eatdirt » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:39 pm

You don't happen to have access to a video or picture or link of exactly what we should be seeing in the camera view as far as a target alignment that would be on the RMS?


Yes, let me search where I did find that, I'll edit this post with the answer!

Edit: From https://www.nasa.gov/centers/johnson/pdf/359856main_PDRS_127_F_S206.pdf, see around page 255, It looks like the WRIST CCTV overlay is a simple circle surrounded by a cross, and some vertical lines around (arrows and comments to be ignored I suspect)

STS-127
Image

If you check earlier missions, the overlay was even simpler, just the little cross and circle in the middle. From https://www.nasa.gov/centers/johnson/pdf/106792main_PDRS_114_B_A.pdf, page 135

STS-114 (older version?)
Image

I don't really know how to add that to the view, but that would be very nice, indeed!

PS: For the screen overlay you had already started Wayne, I guess you know already how it looks like, this is the CTVM (Color Television Monitor) from the SCOM, page 2.3-14, you already made it perfect! However, I would not work too much on that if I were you, because if we manage to embed views in future versions of flightgear, we would just have to put the SRMS view on one of the 3D CTVM model inside the cockpit?

I'll keep digging into some docs about that!

Cheers,
Chris.
eatdirt
 
Posts: 840
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:06 pm

Re: Space Shuttle - Development

Postby Hooray » Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:51 pm

eatdirt wrote in Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:39 pm:I don't really know how to add that to the view, but that would be very nice, indeed!


Even without the Canvas view patches, this sort of thing can be done using the Canvas - using the same approach that a Canvas HUD would use.
There's even a dedicated placement for stuff like that, it's called "desktop": https://wiki.flightgear.org/Canvas_Snip ... as_Desktop

https://wiki.flightgear.org/Canvas_HUD
Image

(We have previously covered doing 3D projections on a HUD, i.e. projecting/unprojecting elements on Canvas HUD)

PS: I would not expect additional CompositeViewer windows to work for Canvas HUDs currently (Jules might be able to clarify if I am wrong or not) - if you are pursuing a CompositeViewer based view shown in a separate window, a shader-based approach for the HUD might be better (Thorsten should know if that's true or not). But again, the CompositeViewer stuff will only work in CompositeViewer-enabled binaries, so that might not be that interesting until it's actually enabled by default ?
Please don't send support requests by PM, instead post your questions on the forum so that all users can contribute and benefit
Thanks & all the best,
Hooray
Help write next month's newsletter !
pui2canvas | MapStructure | Canvas Development | Programming resources
Hooray
 
Posts: 12186
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:40 am

Re: Space Shuttle - Development

Postby wlbragg » Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:20 pm

@eatdirt
I should be able to add the cctv mesh object on the SRMS arm and add the object name to all the rotations in the rmsArm.xml and the rmsArm-disconnected.xml and it should just work because it is just another mesh object placed in a static position on the arm. I get that your manipulating the SRMS view using nasal, but I shouldn't have to do that to the mesh object because it is attached to the arm and move with it and the view should consistently be the exact same no mater the movement. But if I do it in the xml it is not keeping pace one to one with the SRMS view, in fact it is slightly faster. Then I noticed the SRMS view is not calculating correctly, watch the center of the arm that you can see in the view and rotate only the shoulder yaw and you will see the RMS arm is also moving slightly faster than the view does, it slowly gains on the view amount of rotation. That is why the mesh in the xml is also incorrect, double the incorrect amount in the SRMS view calculations.

As far as eventually getting a interior cctv view, I think this full screen cctv view will still always be really useful. The amount of actual code to produce the desired results should be minimal. Also I think a good portion of it will port to the interior cctv mesh object anyway, we will just be a step ahead at the point we have that capability.

Thank you Hooray.
Kansas(2-27-15)/Ohio/Midwest scenery development.
KEQA (2-27-15), 3AU, KRCP Airport Layout
Intel i5 3570K AMDRX480
wlbragg
 
Posts: 6035
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:31 pm
Location: Kansas (Tornado Alley), USA
Callsign: WC2020
Version: next
OS: Win10/Linux/AMDRX480

Re: Space Shuttle - Development

Postby Thorsten » Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:03 am

So... I still have to ask - is every collaborator Go! for tagging the new milestone?

Or do we need more testing / more fixes / one more feature?
Thorsten
 
Posts: 12015
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:33 am

Re: Space Shuttle - Development

Postby wlbragg » Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:03 am

As far as I am concerned, I'm good for you to tag the new milestone. I doubt I will be able to finish the SRMS view overlay in any type of quick time frame. Also it would be dependent on Chris to figures out what is wrong with the view rotations.
Kansas(2-27-15)/Ohio/Midwest scenery development.
KEQA (2-27-15), 3AU, KRCP Airport Layout
Intel i5 3570K AMDRX480
wlbragg
 
Posts: 6035
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:31 pm
Location: Kansas (Tornado Alley), USA
Callsign: WC2020
Version: next
OS: Win10/Linux/AMDRX480

Re: Space Shuttle - Development

Postby Hooray » Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:13 am

As far as eventually getting a interior cctv view, I think this full screen cctv view will still always be really useful. The amount of actual code to produce the desired results should be minimal. Also I think a good portion of it will port to the interior cctv mesh object anyway, we will just be a step ahead at the point we have that capability.


I agree with that, also if the 3D model for the screen is kept separate, it could be used for the current approach, but can also be reused for the internal view once Canvas views become generally available, like you said in one of your previous postings.
Adding the equivalent of a screen object to the "root" of the arm when the view is shown (and looking "through" it), will look correct in the corresponding view - and the object will be useful in the future anyway. Obviously, an actual screen that is attached to the RMS may look somewhat funny in other views :lol:
Please don't send support requests by PM, instead post your questions on the forum so that all users can contribute and benefit
Thanks & all the best,
Hooray
Help write next month's newsletter !
pui2canvas | MapStructure | Canvas Development | Programming resources
Hooray
 
Posts: 12186
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:40 am

Re: Space Shuttle - Development

Postby eatdirt » Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:14 am

you will see the RMS arm is also moving slightly faster than the view does


I understand what you do now. Yes, there are small mismatches between the 3D calculation of rms.xml and the 3D model of the arm, these have always been present. For instance, they explain why the end effector slightly shifts along the grapple when you move the arm around with a payload attached.

Thorsten's calculations for the arm, and the little ones I have added for the camera, are correct (I've checked them twice already). In my opinion, these small mismatches are simply small differences in what we take as origin and lengths of the various moving parts in the calculations of rms.xml with respect to the actual 3D model. So, they're fixable but require a dedicated work to precisely measure the position and lengths of all parts of the arm. I can do that, but the best approach would be to not mix one calculation with the other as far as we can do this. So Wayne, if you add a 3D camera on top of the arm, and you can return the center position and attitude of it, we can also use this for the view instead of the rms.xml camera position?

Edit: well, my last question got an obvious answer: No, otherwise we wouldn't have any need of rms.xml :)

Nonetheless, that's fixable. For instance, I see that the animation for shoulder yaw is around:

Code: Select all
<x-m>-8.58656</x-m>
<y-m>-2.08779</y-m>
<z-m>-1.11476</z-m>


And we approximate that to -8.5, -2.1 and -1.1 everywhere else. That was more than enough to anything we have done before, but indeed, with the camera and grapple target, we start seeing things at one inch resolution. Little things become visible. If we start adjusting these numbers, this will move everything a bit around so we should not do this now for sure and wait milestone release.


Anyway, it's "go" for me for the milestone as it is now.
eatdirt
 
Posts: 840
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:06 pm

Re: Space Shuttle - Development

Postby GinGin » Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:50 pm

All good for me also.
GinGin
 
Posts: 1381
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:41 am
Location: Paris
Callsign: Gingin

Re: Space Shuttle - Development

Postby Thorsten » Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:51 pm

Milestone 13 is tagged and pushed. I'll ask Richard tomorrow to update FGAddon when he finds the time and get the manual out soonish (I'm nearly finished with what I wanted to update).

Feel free to push experimental/new stuff now, we'll just use the tag to get back to the stable version.
Thorsten
 
Posts: 12015
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:33 am

Re: Space Shuttle - Development

Postby eatdirt » Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:22 pm

Milestone 13 is tagged and pushed


Champagne!!
eatdirt
 
Posts: 840
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:06 pm

Re: Space Shuttle - Development

Postby GinGin » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:08 pm

Milestone 13 is tagged and pushed [...] Champagne!


Very nice, not too late with the intial early Spring target :)
GinGin
 
Posts: 1381
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:41 am
Location: Paris
Callsign: Gingin

Re: Space Shuttle - Development

Postby Vinny002 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:05 pm

The new version of the FG space shuttle is coming along very well!! Question for you, what does milestones like 11, 12, and 13 mean? Cheers vincent.
Vinny002
 
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:55 pm

Re: Space Shuttle - Development

Postby wlbragg » Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:01 pm

Hi Vincent, my understanding is it denotes a point in time where the latest changes and development is considered stable. The difference between this milestone and the last milestone could virtually be anything but technically it's the new changes since the last milestone that are now considered stable. This would be my very layman's perception of milestones. I'm sure others could give you a better description.
Kansas(2-27-15)/Ohio/Midwest scenery development.
KEQA (2-27-15), 3AU, KRCP Airport Layout
Intel i5 3570K AMDRX480
wlbragg
 
Posts: 6035
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:31 pm
Location: Kansas (Tornado Alley), USA
Callsign: WC2020
Version: next
OS: Win10/Linux/AMDRX480

Re: Space Shuttle - Development

Postby GinGin » Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:46 pm

This would be my very layman's perception of milestones.


I have the same perception than yours about milestones, well summed up :)


Feel free to push experimental/new stuff now


I pushed some works about the first steps of TAEM original logic emulation.
A sum up of the full original logic there: https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/19920010688

The main visible thing for now is the distance to runway that will take into account the acquisition distance (dAC distance flown when not aligned with WP1 ie. delta azimuth is not 0) and distance d1 at the end of this acquisition turn to the WP 1 ( instead of a direct distance to the WP1).

Image


Edit: Would it be possible to change the Speedbrakes logic to have a proper surface like the elevons that can have a true deflection ?
GinGin
 
Posts: 1381
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:41 am
Location: Paris
Callsign: Gingin

PreviousNext

Return to Spaceflight

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests