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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Thorsten » Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:58 am

Pushbuttons: I'm not 100% sure, but it could be that they're simply not back-lit if the current OPS mode doesn't support them (for instance, orbital DAP selection pushbuttons are only meaningful in OPS 201 and 202), and that they're specifically lit to indicate what mode is active.

So a distinction between 'you can push this button now' and 'you have pushed this button now'

Again, this needs to be checked against the manual.

I've just spent an hour trying to convince JSBSim to implement a pulsed mode for the RCS - in this mode, whenever the stick is moved out of neutral a fixed-duration pulse is fired. So the elevator command is non-zero, generate a property that is set to unity for a configurable time duration. Seems JSBSim dosn't fancy discontinuities - I've now needed a series of five tags to do it for one channel... Sample-hold the internal timer whenever stick is moved out of neutral, compare difference between held timer and current timer with the desired duration, flick a switch between 0 and 1 based on that value, flick a second switch to make the property -1, 0 or 1 dependent on stick position and multiply the two. I haven't found a more graceful way of doing it - we do have <delay> tags, but they expect numerical input, that makes them non-configurable unfortunately...
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby wlbragg » Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:42 pm

Thorsten, Richard, I ran into some issues while doing some of the buttons. Mainly the legend texture and the cockpit itself. Long story short, I reworked
cockpit-ste5.blend (cockpit.ac)
shuttle_02.blend (shuttle_02.ac)
All (interior) cockpit objects now reside in cockpit-ste5.blend (cockpit.ac).
shuttle_02.blend (shuttle_02.ac) now contains none of the interior cockpit objects.
Both blend files have objects that are no longer being used, those objects are "hidden" in the blend file so they don't export to the ac.
Richard, I was able to eliminate the roof_assembly, back_wall and others that had all the gnarly faces that weren't necessary by creating a simple roof shell attached to the front_window frame and using the original black box (behind the view point). See below and the files.
Please check out these changes and give it a thumbs up/down so I can feel free to proceed. I didn't texture any of it yet. But I think it is better that what we had, certainly simpler and less vertices.

Also note the following legend texture lighting and the quality of the text. What is the plan for the text, are we going to try to use it "as is", cleaning it up as we go along, or try to make a cleaner version?
One issue I am having with the Implicit Lightmap is for some reason it is changing the shading color of some of the background objects, I haven't been able to narrow it down to anything in particular but was wondering if it might not be related to z-fighting issues with all the interior parts that were bumping into each other. I'll be able to take another look at it now that the cockpit is cleaned up a bit.
I'll push the changes in a little bit, still have a little clean up to do.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
It also cleans up the protrusion on the ceiling of the shuttle.

Image
Closeup 1

Image
Closeup 2

Image
Overall
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby wlbragg » Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:16 am

I modified the cockpit model a bit more to close off some areas that the external shell shows through. I realize eventually this may all be in vain as it obviously isn't to spec, but should get us by for now.

Image

Image

Image
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Thorsten » Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:45 am

I'm seeing some strange colors after the change. The cockpit ceiling appears darker than I'm used to, and dependent on the sun angle, I sometimes see interior surfaces in a greenish hue.

The effect itself looks pretty - especially when combined with a faint background emissivity change of all interior surfaces. Though it seems a <material> emission to do that further interferes with the color scheme :-( I suspect ultimately we want a proper lightmap to simulate interior light anyway.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby wlbragg » Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:56 pm

Changed my mind, this is a total edit to this original post.

I'm going to use the original Roof_Assembly.001 and spaceshutt_spstob_1 (the back wall) instead. I'm not happy with my Blender skills to do this from scratch so I am going to use and addapt what is already there, I should have done that from the start. But I am going to get rid of all the superfluous faces that are not needed.

For one, I just noticed we lost some of the high wall or ceiling panels/racks.

I'll also see if I can get the lighting to match what we're used to seeing.
I'll leave all the original work intact and hidden (for now).
Richard, I would appreciate any comments you have, especially if you think I am going down the wrong path..

Thorsten wrote in Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:45 am:I'm seeing some strange colors after the change. The cockpit ceiling appears darker than I'm used to, and dependent on the sun angle, I sometimes see interior surfaces in a greenish hue.
....
Though it seems a <material> emission to do that further interferes with the color scheme :-( I suspect ultimately we want a proper lightmap to simulate interior light anyway.

That greenish tint is something I kept seeing when trying to use the flashlight effect and also to a lesser extent the implicit light map for the text legends (not together at the same time). I was puzzled about the light map doing this however because it was only on a couple panels and not all of them that it was applied to.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby wlbragg » Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:12 pm

First thing is the back wall, I don't know if this has been noticed but the bay doors protrude, easiest fix requires moving the pressure vessel wall forwards. Unfortunately it is a hack as the bay door I think extend beyond the fuselage framing.
This is without the fake black box to hide the fuselage. I plan to extend the grey window panel in the ceiling all the way around the interior fuselage eliminating the black box and allowing a visual closer to reality of the interior flight deck.

Before
Image

After, maybe a bit more movement needed.
Image
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Richard » Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:31 am

wlbragg wrote in Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:56 pm:Changed my mind, this is a total edit to this original post.

I'm going to use the original Roof_Assembly.001 and spaceshutt_spstob_1 (the back wall) instead. I'm not happy with my Blender skills to do this from scratch so I am going to use and addapt what is already there, I should have done that from the start. But I am going to get rid of all the superfluous faces that are not needed.

For one, I just noticed we lost some of the high wall or ceiling panels/racks.

I'll also see if I can get the lighting to match what we're used to seeing.
I'll leave all the original work intact and hidden (for now).
Richard, I would appreciate any comments you have, especially if you think I am going down the wrong path..



I've been thinking about this, and checked my original notes (in the form of random bits of 3d model left scattered about my artwork directory).

I think my original intention was to include the detailed part of the aft section from the original blendswap model once I'd figured out the forward section and tested how well it rendered with that much geometry.

I think now we should discuss what to do based on experience thus far with the models (in terms of geometry, and model size)

This is the geometry for the aft section.
Image

There will need to be some sizing and alignment if we go with the detailed model as the rest didn't quite fit with the external model and I had to adjust scaling (which is a lot harder in 3d space than it sounds as I' m sure you know).
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby wlbragg » Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:05 am

This shows where I am trying to go with the pressure vessel, eliminating the black box so we can put in the aft deck. I think were on the same page here.

Using and editing all your original pieces it now fits inside the fuselage with no protrusions and the black box is gone. Almost all the superfluous faces have been eliminated.

Image
Image
Image
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby wlbragg » Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:18 am

Thorsten, Richard, if you get a free moment please test the latest revision of the interior cockpit and let me know what you think.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Thorsten » Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:52 pm

I didn't notice anything bad - well, overhead panels are dark, but then again, no real panels yet.

Btw, I've fixed the lighting issue - you assume you can 'just' use the implicit lightmap, but model-interior.eff is really about the opacity cube map, so it won't allow you to go without one, and in the event you get an environment reflection cube map as default to remind you - which happens to have green grass on it - hence the greenish cockpit hue.

Try /controls/lighting/cockpit-ambience-r (gb) in combination with your implicit lightmap switch to get some nice night visuals.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby wlbragg » Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:17 am

Nice!

Image

It's hard to see it in this image at this size, click open in new tab and zoom (for those that don't know about how to get the full size of the embedded image).
This is just an example of where were going with this, I'm sure this will be adjusted until we get it where we want.

I don't think this is in ALS Technical Notes. You want this added to it or is it documented elsewhere?

Try /controls/lighting/cockpit-ambience-r (gb)

I assume you meant?
Code: Select all
<residual-ambience-r>
    <use>controls/lighting/cockpit-ambience-r</use>
</residual-ambience-r>
<residual-ambience-g>
    <use>controls/lighting/cockpit-ambience-g</use>
</residual-ambience-g>
<residual-ambience-b>
    <use>controls/lighting/cockpit-ambience-b</use>
</residual-ambience-b>



Btw, I've fixed the lighting issue

I'm a bit unclear about this though, are you saying you figured out why or did you actually change something? Are you just telling me I need to make a custom opacity cube map if I want to get rid of the "greenish hue"?
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby wlbragg » Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:42 am

Assuming what I posted in my previous post is correct
Are you just telling me I need to make a custom opacity cube map if I want to get rid of the "greenish hue"?

I simply used Richards B/W 15 cub map and the greenish hue is gone. So I will make one for the shuttle and we can use it for both the interior shadow and the "implicit lightmap".
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Thorsten » Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:58 am

I'm a bit unclear about this though, are you saying you figured out why or did you actually change something?


https://sourceforge.net/p/fgspaceshuttl ... c97c1ec6f/

I've changed to a uniform white opacity map, aka switched it effectively off.

I don't think this is in ALS Technical Notes. You want this added to it or is it documented elsewhere?


It's not? *looks* No, it's actually not. I'm fairly sure I described it somewhere, but please feel free to add to the wiki.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby wlbragg » Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:20 am

Du!

I looked for a commit to fgdata effects and didn't see anything, thus why I asked. It didn't dawn on me to look at the Shuttle code.

Thanks. I guessed right though with the code. I did basically the same thing you did to shuttle-interior.eff except used Richards B/W cubmap.

Is there any reason not to use a B/W or gray scale shadow cube for this?
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Thorsten » Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:28 am

Yeah, I should fix it at the fgdata level - didn't get around to this yet. fgdata commits are never something I do in a hurry.
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