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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Hooray » Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:29 pm

regarding those 100 properties, and supporting multiple instances of the display/instrument, if those are the /same/ properties, and the same layout on all instances, you could also consider rendering those to a separate canvas, and merely reference the separate Canvas, kinda like an overlay/background image - which is how the ND/PFD code gets away with rendering dozens of symbol instances - it's just a texture map lookup.

But that will obviously only work if the values to be shown are identical, using the same layout. If there is any chance for differences in the appearance, reusing the same "background image" with dynamically updated properties won't work.
Otherwise, it would be cheaper obviously than running all the Nasal code independently for reach instance.

Background at: http://wiki.flightgear.org/Howto:Using_ ... d_canvases
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby wlbragg » Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:08 pm

I like the popup keypad because it's positional but it is cool to have the actual console active too. I attached OPS, PRO, 0, 1, 5 to test. It works fine.

Is it premature to map the keys to the actual keypad on the console?
Also the rest of the switches that are visible on the panels such as Main Propulsion System switches, etc.

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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby wlbragg » Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:42 pm

Orbit tutorial feedback,

Open Space Shuttle -> Mechanical Systems. First put the centerline latches to 'stow' position, then operate left and right door switches till the talkback reads 'closed', then latch left and right door.


I was able to follow everything perfectly until here. I don't see a "stow" position and I'm not clear on exactly what "operate left and right door switches" is as I see "open" for both left and right doors and "released" for both left and right latches and I don't know or see where the talkbacks are?
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby wlbragg » Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:17 am

I finished the tutorial and I must say I am impressed. That was really fun and educational.

After the prograde burn what should the HUD altitude be doing and using the timescale and steps in the tutorial what should your altitude be at the end of the burn and the tutorial?

Late edit:

I know you were originally hesitant to use your time to make tutorials, but I got to say, this make all the difference in the world. I would hope you will get more feedback on the Shuttle in general because it opens the door for more user to try it without having to read for hours, a manual that they may or may not be able to understand.
This was really a well done and informative piece of work.

More editing:

So now what? Do I have to spend a day or a week or months to find out how to get down from here? :lol:
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby legoboyvdlp » Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:34 am

Wlbragg, you just hit the checkbox, left to right.
For example, the left one will go //// (in motion) then stow, then same for the rest. Just hit the top row of checkboxes.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby wlbragg » Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:39 am

legoboyvdlp wrote in Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:34 am:just hit the checkbox, left to right.
For example, the left one will go //// (in motion) then stow, then same for the rest.

Thanks, I'll do that next time out and see what it looks like. Maybe there's a better way to explain that in the tutorial, or maybe I am just dense.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby wlbragg » Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:54 am

Thorsten, is the right keypad on the console a duplicate of the left?
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Thorsten » Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:24 am

For the time being, it would be better not to use/update Canvas asynchronously


Asynchronously in the display update loop, not in framerate :-) Sorry for the confusion.

The display loop updates every 0.2 s, if I have 20 fps, the frame duration is 0.05 s, so I can have four display groups and update only one group per frame - that should distribute the load better.

regarding those 100 properties, and supporting multiple instances of the display/instrument, if those are the /same/ properties, and the same layout on all instances, you could also consider rendering those to a separate canvas


You can't assume this - commander and pilot would /usually/ run the same three displays at each station, but each display can be set individually, so the commander can have GNC shown while the pilot works with Systems Management.

I don't see a "stow" position and I'm not clear on exactly what "operate left and right door switches" is as I see "open" for both left and right doors and "released" for both left and right latches and I don't know or see where the talkbacks are?


'Open' and 'released' are the talkbacks - they tell you the current position of the latches/doors. There's no switch position labels on this panel. Once you click on the switches, the talkbacks change to reflect the new setting, they go /// ('barberpole') in-transit and change to 'latched' and 'closed' once the transition is over.

Is it premature to map the keys to the actual keypad on the console?
Also the rest of the switches that are visible on the panels such as Main Propulsion System switches, etc.


No, in fact I think with the cockpit work stable, it's a good time to start to wire up switches.

The keyboards are more complicated - if you look at the center panel, there are switches to associate each keyboard with a display (and each display with a GPC) - so the left keyboard might command a different display than the right keyboard.

When we have support for multiple displays (aka, have the texture mapping to support a canvas on other displays, have the code sorted out to separate updates common to all displays from updates for one display) then we also need to attach a label to each keyboard so that the parser knows which display it talks to.

For the time being, the keys can well be mapped as long as the two keyboards are kept distinct and just 'happen' to have the same bindings.

After the prograde burn what should the HUD altitude be doing and using the timescale and steps in the tutorial what should your altitude be at the end of the burn and the tutorial?


I ended with an apoapsis of 337 miles and a periapsis of 323 miles - that's a near-circular 600 km orbit (rather high) - such as to service Hubble. Well, at a different inclination...
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby wlbragg » Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:31 am

For the time being, the keys can well be mapped as long as the two keyboards are kept distinct and just 'happen' to have the same bindings.

OK, I think what I pushed fits this bill. The right keypad objects are named with an additional .001 appended to them, also set that way in the xml.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Hooray » Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:08 am

note that there is also a snippet of code for creating the whole thing procedurally, so you don't necessarily need to copy/modify the XML dialog to come up with a new keypad instance. Equally, you don't need to wait for the UV/texture mapping to prototype support for independent display instances, i.e. you could render the whole thing to the GUI dialog for testing purposes:

Subject: Space Shuttle

Hooray wrote:http://wiki.flightgear.org/FlightGear_Newsletter_September_2015#Space_Shuttle
Image

Regarding the PUI dialog, the whole dialog could be created procedurally using ~100 lines of Nasal code, with the added benefit that an embedded Canvas (referencing the MFD) could be easily shown next to it, so that the camera/view would not need to be changed when dealing with the PFD, including dynamic tooltips (help) etc

http://wiki.flightgear.org/Howto:Creati ... FD_Dialogs
Image

The mechanism for displaying an existing Canvas requires ~5 lines of code: http://wiki.flightgear.org/Howto:Using_ ... ynamically

In fact, showing the PFD screen instead of the splash image, would only require changing a single line.

In other words, Canvas GUI dialogs can trivially show MFDs, but MFDs can also show Canvas GUI widgets (which, admittedly, won't be too useful given the nature of shuttle avionics).
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Thorsten » Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:15 am

so you don't necessarily need to copy/modify the XML dialog to come up with a new keypad instance


I'll just add a screen selector to the xml keypad - it'd be a bit odd to try to duplicate it so you can have two of them open... :-)
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Thorsten » Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:05 pm

OK, I think what I pushed fits this bill.


Works nicely. Another obvious target to make a button workable are the Pitch CSS/AUTO and Roll/Yaw CSS/AUTO pushbuttons on the diagonal panel frame. They are currently represented in SpaceShuttle->Flight Controls.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby legoboyvdlp » Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:07 pm

FYI, I added a screenshot to the orbital ops tutorial, showing how nice the propellant dump looks under ALS and Earthview.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby legoboyvdlp » Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:48 pm

Not sure what I did wrong, but I'm over the Sahara, TTA is 22 minutes, and the external tank is well below, and just beneath me, not in front of me.
:)
By the way, this is starting in orbit.
All going well so far.
I assume nose-pointing-more-and-more-left-of-the-ground-track is normal? I'm currently heading 90, but track 130.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Thorsten » Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:14 pm

I assume you're in LVLH, and that would point the nose to a constant heading - which the groundtrack doesn't have.
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