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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby japreja » Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:14 am

My shuttle_o2.blend I had from modeling the gear bay and the main gears was lost when Windows decided to upgrade against my wishes and trashed my drive, I've since had to reinstall everything. I may have it on a DVD of backups but I have nearly a full TB of data to pick through :? so it may be some time before I find it.

shuttle_o2.blend i posted for Thorsten to commit, from git records it looks like it would have been around June or the beginning of July? Not sure how to retrieve that to send it to you. I think that's also about the time Thorsten noticed the the stray verts on the payload bay, maybe a month earlier. But they shouldn't have popped back up unless the SourceForge crash had something to do with it.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby wlbragg » Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:44 am

japreja wrote in Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:14 am:I may have it on a DVD of backups but I have nearly a full TB of data to pick through :? so it may be some time before I find it.

Don't bother, I thought you may have something different that what was in git.

I pulled it fresh and have been working on it now for a couple hours. We have many issues. Somehow I think we had a model regression. I just noticed while testing that the inside texture on the speed brake is messed up again.

The inside wheel wells have a z-fighting issue that I don't think was there after I fixed the textures on it.

I'm pretty much overwhelmed at this point. It's like one step forward and 5 back.

Issues I know about...
1) z-fighting in the wheel wells.
2) stray vert on the bay doors.
3) normals problem or something on the left and right gear doors, I recalculated them and now instead of that greenish color they are too light in color.
4) gear carriage or something sticking through the top wing surface.
5) speed brake texture issue.

The texture problem on the heat shield is fixable by moving object "heatshield" to space-combined instead of space.

I really need to do some regressions in git and see where this broke, or if any of this was ever correct.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby wlbragg » Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:32 am

More testing has reviled that it is space-combined and space effects influencing some of the texturing issues. It also looks like the left speed brake's texture is all messed up in the blend. Although the right inside looks bad, the texture is still mapped correctly, the effect being applied is when it looks messed up.

Image

I'm not the only one seeing this stuff am I?
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Richard » Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:27 am

wlbragg wrote in Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:44 am:I really need to do some regressions in git and see where this broke, or if any of this was ever correct.


Just had a quick look at the logs and since May 24 it is only your changes that have been committed to develop for shuttle_o2.ac
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Thorsten » Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:35 am

More testing has reviled that it is space-combined and space effects influencing some of the texturing issues.


As I said a few posts earlier when I tried to streamline the effects, these are lighting issues. The gear doors get the wrong light, and I suspect the speedbrake does as well, when using space-combined. My suspicion were odd-pointing normals. This is why we have a mismatch in effects in the first place which sometimes shows - I couldn't assign space-combined everywhere as I had planned because the gear doors were screwed up and showed bright light when they should have been dark (I think the speedbrake as well...).

I've spent an hour comparing a photograph of Atlantis on the ground with screenshots, and I needed a z-offset in gear position to make the outlines match - ideally I'd like the main gear even a bit lower.

I hope the shuttle stops falling through with this


I *think* I got this working now...

It took me ages to figure out a few things. Starting with the fact that the pad never seemed to align with the Shuttle no matter how I passed the heading of the spacecraft to place it correctly. Turns out that /orientation/heading-deg doesn't actually work because the Shuttle is pitched up, so we're looking right into the Euler singularity and all we get is a random number. So I use /sim/presets/heading-deg now.

Then I need to 'park' the Shuttle in the air while JSBSim and the terrain initialize, because otherwise JSBSIm is somehow going to assume I want to init on the gear, which places me underground if the terrain elevation is too high (don't ask me why, I just know that this does happen). But putting the Shuttle back on the ground from the parking position incurs a few meters of displacement (I guess Coriolis force mainly), so now I put it back to /sim/presets/latitude-deg and /sim/presets/longitude-deg explicitly to overcome this.

Then there's the issue of the pad offset altitude from which to drop the Shuttle onto the pad - for some airports, 70 ft extra worked well, for others I needed more (again don't ask...) - now we're using 100 and I verified that this inits alive in some five different airports at different elevations.

What I don't know is whether there are yet more timing issues which come out differently on other computers, so... just check.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby wlbragg » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:10 am

Just had a quick look at the logs and since May 24 it is only your changes that have been committed to develop for shuttle_o2.ac

Maybe so, but it wasn't like this the last time I flew it and I haven't made any changes since. I guess whether I want to or not I will have to look at the history and see if I can find any thing that may have caused a regression.

As I said a few posts earlier when I tried to streamline the effects, these are lighting issues

It's both lighting issues and bad UV texture mapping. But some of the bad mapping I corrected at least once before. I don't know if it is corrupting when I open the blend locally or if the blend itself had an issue.
I checked the doors normals and even recalculated them. It actually made a difference, but still not the correct one. It did make it look correct in the blend file when it didn't before I recalculated the normals. The verts sticking out of the doors, I know we corrected them once before.

I don't want to waist hours correcting these issues, again, without having a understanding as to why they popped back up, no matter what or who caused it.
For one it really isn't my bailiwick, only by necessity have I learned any of it. All I am interested in is fixing the issues and making sure they don't just come back.

The touchdown effect, I told you they are still there but just so faint you can't see them any more, do you have any idea what may have changed that could cause that?
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby wlbragg » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:14 am

I've spent an hour comparing a photograph of Atlantis on the ground with screenshots, and I needed a z-offset in gear position to make the outlines match - ideally I'd like the main gear even a bit lower.

That is also something that we knew about from back when. japreja said he had to make the wheels and/or gear smaller than spec to get them to fit in the wing without popping through. That is another issue that we have already even with the smaller gear. It will probably require a remodeling of the wing and/or fuselage to get the correct sized gears to fit.
We need an expert modeler to rescue us!

While I am at it, pointing out some of the issues I know about. The gear animation isn't fully finished. It's not correct. I got it to a certain point that was better than not having it at all and never got back to it, that one is on me.

I hope I'm not being taken wrong, this isn't a gripe session, just observation of issues I thought long ago corrected (some of them anyway). My only gripe is having such a struggle fixing stuff that technically should be pretty easy to fix. I will say that the shuttle modeling has been a "REAL" challenge from the get go, for me anyway.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby japreja » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:49 am

Just to note, only the tires and rims were made smaller to fit inside without coming through the wing. I made the landing gear to have a suspension, the shocks can travel 3 inches down and 5 inches up from its static position when it is fully deployed, a total of 8 inches. That is what the design drawings called for in the 70's. But since the nose looked too close to the ground, I believe someone pushed up the entire gear when the shock should have just been compressed slightly in the animation. I think Shock, ShockR, and ShockL are all that need to be adjusted.

If you adjust the height of the gears in the 3D mesh, it will most likely poke through the wing again, so any shock adjustment should be done in the animation if at all possible.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby japreja » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:28 am

Another thing, the file LandingGears in the artwork folder has the main gear bay along with the all 3 gears. It might be possible to just delete the main gear bay and replace it with the former one. you could pull it into the shuttle_02.blend using append and weld some vertices to connect it back to the heat shield.

But looking at shuttle_02.blend the gear bay looks fine. Did any animations in xml accidentally push the heat shield up, or the shuttle body down? I think that would also give the same effect of it protruding through the wing. The .blend in this respect looks fine, nothing protruding from what I can see.

I also checked the speed break/rudder and the faces seem to be flipped which I think you already noticed. The seams look to be too sharp and the outer face is poking through the inner face. Not sure what to do about that. I think that's why the effects are acting funny on that area.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby wlbragg » Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:53 pm

@japreja, thank you for explaing the gear size issue.

I've done a bit of regression testing and I think understand a few things.

The verts sticking out, I don't think they were ever corrected, I'll take care of that.

The lack of touchdown smoke appears to have happened when I consolidated the code into its own folder. Maybe a path problem or internal sim problem accessing what it needs. Kind of like the problem I've noticed when trying to move animations and certain effects out of the main model.xml code into a sub-folder and file called by model.xml. I've never taken the time to find out "why", I've always just put it back. I'll take care of this.

The gear door lighting issue. In regression I noticed the entire aircraft was darker (incorrect lighting?) so you couldn't notice any issues (basically what you said Thorsten).

Did any animations in xml accidentally push the heat shield up, or the shuttle body down? I think that would also give the same effect of it protruding through the wing. The .blend in this respect looks fine, nothing protruding from what I can see.

I'll investigate.

I also checked the speed break/rudder and the faces seem to be flipped which I think you already noticed. The seams look to be too sharp and the outer face is poking through the inner face. Not sure what to do about that. I think that's why the effects are acting funny on that area.

Yes, I agree. I'll work on it also.

I'll fix what I eaisily can first and then keep digging until I figure out how to fix the rest of it
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby wlbragg » Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:53 pm

I just fixed the normals issue on the outside left and right gear doors.

Just wanted to let you all know so no one else waists any time on it.

I'll push when I fix a few of the other issues
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby wlbragg » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:26 pm

Wow, I just figured out the z-fighting wheel well issue. What a dumb mistake, probably all on me. The wheel well is duplicated in both the shuttle_o2.blend and the LandingGears.blend, they were both turned on. I spent an hour or more messing with the normals only to fail, then it suddenly dawned on me that the front wheel well was working correctly and it was not in the LandingGears.blend. I was only working on the shuttle_o2.blend. So I went to the LandingGears.blend and sure enough, there were those &#$^ well wells turned on.

Now I have to figure out which ones to use. I guess I'll have to see if I can tell which ones are sticking through the wing.
was the one in LandingGears.blend.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby wlbragg » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:17 pm

OK, I just pushed the fix for all the above issues except touchdown smoke. I'll get to that shortly.

Unfortunately, I just crossed a new threshold of knowledge about UV mapping with Blender and have no more excuses when I mess it up.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby MIG29pilot » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:30 pm

Any mistakes made by the developers of the shuttle cannot be as silly as mine, the end user. I downloaded the latest shuttle, started, and wondered why I didn't have a cockpit. It was because I downloaded the wrong one (master branch, instead of development)
That would explain the "not edited since June or so" bit.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby wlbragg » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:49 pm

I fixed the touchdown vortex. It was an improper path to the smoke texture in the effects.xml files.

Dang, I have one more UV map correction on the speed brake to commit but SF is down for maintenance.

EDIT:
All done, let me know if I missed anything.
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