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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby legoboyvdlp » Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:47 pm

Yeah, I do get the same error or bug or feature though after SRB separation...
By the way your apus are on right?
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Thorsten » Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:50 pm

Control loss after SRB separation is almost certainly no hydraulics and hence no engine gimbal because you didn't follow the checklist and start APU and hydraulics system.

Note that APU on is not enough - the hydraulic pumps need to be set to high pressure (HYD PRESSURE SELECT) otherwise the system will still be considered failed.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Saga » Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:59 pm

Thanks it was my problem, my APUs were disabled. I forgot to read the checklists but I did for the aircraft help.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby legoboyvdlp » Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:22 pm

My error might be that! I might have rpm high and hydraulic low....
Idk, let me check...
But my out of control happens at nearly-into-orbit when I am thinking of MECO
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Saga » Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:42 pm

legoboyvdlp wrote in Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:22 pm:But my out of control happens at nearly-into-orbit when I am thinking of MECO

I had this too, and I cut off SSMEs when I feel the nose pitch up. It seems to work. Maybe when the tank is almost empty, SSMEs have this bevaviour?
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby legoboyvdlp » Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:59 pm

Oh! Maybe you dump the tank before its empty 100% gotta try that
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby bugman » Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:15 am

In case you missed it you may be interested in this FGAddon commit which touches the shuttle:


I guess this stricter XML standard is required for the FGMeta create_catalog.py Python script that will be used by the new launcher.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Thorsten » Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:54 am

I'm not quite sure for most of the commit what the problem is - I see often identical lines removed and added. I guess that means we'll just re-introduce whatever the problem is with the next update.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Thorsten » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:06 am

Maybe when the tank is almost empty, SSMEs have this bevaviour?


I suppose it's possible that the CoG of the mated vehicle for an empty tank is outside of the region the engines can vector within their gimbal range. I don't have any data for the weight distribution of the ET, so the current value of its CoG and inertia tensor is a guesstimate.

I find it strange you'd have need to fly the tank literally empty though... without payload and flying the default lightweight tank, there should be some leftover fuel at MECO (also the Shuttle manual mentions explicitly the one shouldn't fly till the engines don't get any propellant - that will shut down the engines but damage them in the process, so the actual MECO happens with leftover fuel in the tank as well).

Also, you don't need to be fully orbital at MECO - the OMS engines can give you some extra push. So shutting down the engines is the right answer.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby bugman » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:09 am

Thorsten wrote in Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:54 am:I'm not quite sure for most of the commit what the problem is - I see often identical lines removed and added. I guess that means we'll just re-introduce whatever the problem is with the next update.


I see, there's a lot of trailing whitespace deletions as well. Maybe those are important for the catalogue script too. There are also a few fixes for integers which are not integers. Here's the diff I see:

Code: Select all
[edward@localhost flightgear-fgaddon]$ svn diff -r813:r814 Aircraft/SpaceShuttle
Index: Aircraft/SpaceShuttle/SpaceShuttle-set.xml
===================================================================
--- Aircraft/SpaceShuttle/SpaceShuttle-set.xml   (revision 813)
+++ Aircraft/SpaceShuttle/SpaceShuttle-set.xml   (revision 814)
@@ -47,7 +47,7 @@
           <aero-structure-condition type="double">1.0</aero-structure-condition>
           <controls-condition type="double">1.0</controls-condition>
           <speedbrake-condition type="double">1.0</speedbrake-condition>
-          <speedbrake-control type="int">1.0</speedbrake-control>
+          <speedbrake-control type="int">1</speedbrake-control>
           <drag-chute-condition type="double">1.0</drag-chute-condition>
           <gear-hydraulics-condition type="double">1.0</gear-hydraulics-condition>
           <tire-nose-condition type="double">1.0</tire-nose-condition>
@@ -241,11 +241,11 @@
          <fc-controller-power type="int">1</fc-controller-power>
          <bus-connector-status type="int">1</bus-connector-status>
          <fc-efficiency type="double">1.0</fc-efficiency>
-          </fc>   
+          </fc>
           <bus1-power-demand-kW type="double">4.0</bus1-power-demand-kW>
-          <bus2-power-demand-kW type="double">4.0</bus2-power-demand-kW>   
+          <bus2-power-demand-kW type="double">4.0</bus2-power-demand-kW>
           <bus3-power-demand-kW type="double">4.0</bus3-power-demand-kW>
-          <init-electrical-on type="double">14.0</init-electrical-on>      
+          <init-electrical-on type="double">14.0</init-electrical-on>
       </electrical>
       <mechanical>
          <et-door-cl-latch-cmd type="int">1</et-door-cl-latch-cmd>
@@ -275,9 +275,9 @@
          <pb-door-right-aft-latch-cmd type="int">0</pb-door-right-aft-latch-cmd>
          <pb-door-right-aft-latch-pos type="double">0.0</pb-door-right-aft-latch-pos>
          <pb-door-left-cmd type="int">0</pb-door-left-cmd>
-         <pb-door-left-pos type="int">0.0</pb-door-left-pos>
+         <pb-door-left-pos type="int">0</pb-door-left-pos>
          <pb-door-right-cmd type="int">0</pb-door-right-cmd>
-         <pb-door-right-pos type="int">0.0</pb-door-right-pos>
+         <pb-door-right-pos type="int">0</pb-door-right-pos>
          <pb-door-sys1-enable type="int">0</pb-door-sys1-enable>
          <pb-door-sys2-enable type="int">0</pb-door-sys2-enable>
          <pb-door-indicator type="double">0</pb-door-indicator>
@@ -429,10 +429,10 @@
 
             <fuel-left-rcs-pressure-psia type="double">250.0</fuel-left-rcs-pressure-psia>
             <fuel-right-rcs-pressure-psia type="double">250.0</fuel-right-rcs-pressure-psia>
-            <fuel-fwd-rcs-pressure-psia type="double">250.0</fuel-fwd-rcs-pressure-psia>
+            <fuel-fwd-rcs-pressure-psia type="double">250.0</fuel-fwd-rcs-pressure-psia>
           <oxidizer-left-rcs-pressure-psia type="double">250.0</oxidizer-left-rcs-pressure-psia>
             <oxidizer-right-rcs-pressure-psia type="double">250.0</oxidizer-right-rcs-pressure-psia>
-            <oxidizer-fwd-rcs-pressure-psia type="double">250.0</oxidizer-fwd-rcs-pressure-psia>
+            <oxidizer-fwd-rcs-pressure-psia type="double">250.0</oxidizer-fwd-rcs-pressure-psia>
 
           <tank-right-rcs-valve-12-status type="int">1</tank-right-rcs-valve-12-status>
           <tank-right-rcs-valve-345A-status type="int">1</tank-right-rcs-valve-345A-status>
@@ -450,7 +450,7 @@
           <mfold-right-rcs-valve-3-status type="int">1</mfold-right-rcs-valve-3-status>
           <mfold-right-rcs-valve-4-status type="int">1</mfold-right-rcs-valve-4-status>
           <mfold-right-rcs-valve-5-status type="int">1</mfold-right-rcs-valve-5-status>
-   
+
           <mfold-left-rcs-valve-1-status type="int">1</mfold-left-rcs-valve-1-status>
           <mfold-left-rcs-valve-2-status type="int">1</mfold-left-rcs-valve-2-status>
           <mfold-left-rcs-valve-3-status type="int">1</mfold-left-rcs-valve-3-status>
@@ -462,12 +462,12 @@
           <mfold-fwd-rcs-valve-3-status type="int">1</mfold-fwd-rcs-valve-3-status>
           <mfold-fwd-rcs-valve-4-status type="int">1</mfold-fwd-rcs-valve-4-status>
           <mfold-fwd-rcs-valve-5-status type="int">1</mfold-fwd-rcs-valve-5-status>
-      
-          <crossfeed-left-rcs-valve-12-status type="int">0</crossfeed-left-rcs-valve-12-status>   
-          <crossfeed-left-rcs-valve-345-status type="int">0</crossfeed-left-rcs-valve-345-status>        
-          <crossfeed-right-rcs-valve-12-status type="int">0</crossfeed-right-rcs-valve-12-status>   
-          <crossfeed-right-rcs-valve-345-status type="int">0</crossfeed-right-rcs-valve-345-status>        
 
+          <crossfeed-left-rcs-valve-12-status type="int">0</crossfeed-left-rcs-valve-12-status>
+          <crossfeed-left-rcs-valve-345-status type="int">0</crossfeed-left-rcs-valve-345-status>
+          <crossfeed-right-rcs-valve-12-status type="int">0</crossfeed-right-rcs-valve-12-status>
+          <crossfeed-right-rcs-valve-345-status type="int">0</crossfeed-right-rcs-valve-345-status>
+
           <heater-left-A-status type="int">0</heater-left-A-status>
           <heater-left-B-status type="int">0</heater-left-B-status>
 
@@ -494,7 +494,7 @@
           <oxidizer-left-crossfeed-correction type="double">0.0</oxidizer-left-crossfeed-correction>
           <oxidizer-right-crossfeed-correction type="double">0.0</oxidizer-right-crossfeed-correction>
 
-      </rcs-hardware>   
+      </rcs-hardware>
       <thermal-distribution>
          <freon-loop-switch type="double">0.4</freon-loop-switch>
          <water-loop-switch type="int">1</water-loop-switch>
@@ -529,7 +529,7 @@
             <speedbrake-string type="string">in</speedbrake-string>
        <speedbrake type="double">0.0</speedbrake>
             <drag-chute-string type="string">in</drag-chute-string>
-       <SRB-static-model type="bool">true</SRB-static-model>      
+       <SRB-static-model type="bool">true</SRB-static-model>
        <ET-static-model type="bool">true</ET-static-model>
        <bodyflap-pos-rad type="double">0.0</bodyflap-pos-rad>
        <forces>
@@ -593,7 +593,7 @@
         </doors>
         <robotarm-norm type="float">0</robotarm-norm>
     </instrumentation>

+
   <!-- create the node at startup, will be overwritten later -->
    <position>
    <sea-level-radius-ft>26000000.0</sea-level-radius-ft>
@@ -1052,7 +1052,7 @@
 
 Without a visual reference point, the effect of translational thruster firings are hard to gauge.
 
-There is a host of digital autopilots (DAPs) available for orbital maneuvering, all with somewhat different characteristics. For some the stick controls angular acceleration, for others angular rates, some employ the primary thrusters, others the less powerful Vernier thrusters - the FG Wiki or the Shuttle Crew Manual have a detailed description of what does what.
+There is a host of digital autopilots (DAPs) available for orbital maneuvering, all with somewhat different characteristics. For some the stick controls angular acceleration, for others angular rates, some employ the primary thrusters, others the less powerful Vernier thrusters - the FG Wiki or the Shuttle Crew Manual have a detailed description of what does what.
 
 The main groups of DAPs are switched using 'm' - these are rotational DAPs (controlling vehicle attitude), translational DAPs (moving the vehicle around) and OMS DAPs (controlling thrust vectoring when the orbital engines are on). Inside each group, 'Shift-m' changes the individual modes.
 
@@ -1109,7 +1109,7 @@
 
 (You can start at this phase with --aircraft=SpaceShuttle-approach)
 
-Descend with a glidepath of -17 to -15 deg, using speedbrakes to keep the velocity at around 320-340 kt. At 1.700 ft above ground, pull up and reduce glidepath to -3 deg, deploy gear, flare and aim for a touchdown at between 200 and 220 kt (you may need a long runway). Do not aim to touch down at the usual point for aircraft, the Shuttle touchdown point is some 2.500 ft from the start of teh runway. Be careful to keep sinkrate below 9 ft/s or 540 ft/min at touchdown to avoid gear damage, don't pull the nose up more than 15 degrees to avoid a tail scrape.
+Descend with a glidepath of -17 to -15 deg, using speedbrakes to keep the velocity at around 320-340 kt. At 1.700 ft above ground, pull up and reduce glidepath to -3 deg, deploy gear, flare and aim for a touchdown at between 200 and 220 kt (you may need a long runway). Do not aim to touch down at the usual point for aircraft, the Shuttle touchdown point is some 2.500 ft from the start of teh runway. Be careful to keep sinkrate below 9 ft/s or 540 ft/min at touchdown to avoid gear damage, don't pull the nose up more than 15 degrees to avoid a tail scrape.
 
 Once the nose wheel is on the ground, deploy drag chute using 'c' (it has two stages, the first stage is 40% reefed). Coast till velocity has dropped to 180 kt, then gradually lower the nose. Be careful not to do this too fast, or you'll break nose gear. Only once all wheels are on the ground, apply wheel brakes 'b' to bring the Shuttle to a stop. Congratulations, you're home.
 
@@ -1117,9 +1117,9 @@
         </help>
 
    <systems>
-      <property-rule n="100">
-             <name>ssme-flame-computation</name>    
-             <path>Systems/ssme-flame-computation.xml</path> 
+      <property-rule n="100">
+             <name>ssme-flame-computation</name>
+             <path>Systems/ssme-flame-computation.xml</path>
         </property-rule>
       <property-rule n="101">
          <path>Systems/ground-effects-filters.xml</path>
@@ -1152,7 +1152,7 @@
     <input>
         <keyboard>
 
-       <key n="4">
+       <key n="4">
         <name>Ctrl+d</name>
         <desc>Force external tank drop</desc>
        <repeatable type="bool">false</repeatable>
@@ -1180,7 +1180,7 @@
         </binding>
         </key>
 
-        <key n="13">
+        <key n="13">
         <name>Ctrl+m</name>
         <desc>Switch major FCS control modes</desc>
        <repeatable type="bool">false</repeatable>
@@ -1384,5 +1384,3 @@
    </gear>
 
 </PropertyList>
-
-


Running 'svn diff -r813:r814 Aircraft/SpaceShuttle > patch' would create a patch file that could be applied to the git development branch, avoiding the problems from returning to FGAddon with the next merge.

Regards,

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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby japreja » Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:56 pm

@Thorsten
It may take me quite a few more days to transfer all my files to a new OS, the Windows 10 upgrade keeps failing and causing other errors. When I get OpenSuSE installed with blender and some code editors I'll be able to give a hand on this project again.

I've also tried testing out the concrete structure of the pads I created a few days ago. After placing it I couldn't see it so when I get everything running on a new system I'll retry and try fixing it.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Johan G » Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:26 pm

I have split off some post not directly related to the development to the new topic FlightGear > Support > Flying > Flying the Space Shuttle.
Low-level flying — It's all fun and games till someone looses an engine. (Paraphrased from a YouTube video)
Improving the Dassault Mirage F1 (Wiki, Forum, GitLab. Work in slow progress)
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby erik » Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:54 am

I'm not sure if you are aware of this, nor if it's useful but:

NASA Posts a Huge Library of Space Sounds, And You’re Free To Use Them
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2014/10/n ... -free-use/
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Thorsten » Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:11 pm

I've seen them before - largely not very usable, either very specific communications between mission control and orbiter, or commentary...

The launch rocket engine sound seems good though, so does the gear deploy. Maybe I can do something with those. Though I'm really not proficient in sound editing.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby legoboyvdlp » Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:22 pm

Obviously we cannot use the C-BY-SA European sounds but the NASA ones seem to be public domain...?
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