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Space Shuttle

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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Hooray » Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:49 am

ok, understood, I'll shut up now
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Thorsten » Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:51 am

@abassign:

It's really a great job this collection of articles on the space shuttle, I immediately wanted to report on my blog Fgfs Italy on Facebook, in the hope that other fans can appreciate it and maybe make a contribution!


Thanks for the enthusiastic reception and the promotion, but could you please not hot-link the file but its download page, because there's licensing info as well as the info that a deluxe version is in preparation which is otherwise easily missed?

Thanks!
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby maximqad » Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:50 pm


I think I can almost simulate this, except few things like bailout
So, video with footage from FG and this audio in few weeks
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Thorsten » Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:06 pm

I haven't had time to look through the whole thing, but RTLS is fully supported by the autopilot (just don't engage it too early or you'll get poor ranging). It should however not require bailout - only if you lose a second engine during powered RTLS and down-mode to a contingency abort (the AP can do that as well - only if you lose a third engine you're on your own...).

I'm not sure about the bailout itself - the AP to do it can be engaged (if you follow the somewhat opaque procedure...). You'd probably have to use the walker with the Shuttle, if that works you might be able have a view which allows you to jump out and see the Shuttle disappear :mrgreen: Though I've never tested whether the walker plays nice with Atlantis...
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Thorsten » Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:57 am

We're going to need some test data from the people tracking the devel version who experience exceedingly long startup times whether a binary mesh format for the flightdeck improves loading times.

Please look into Models/cockpit-detailed.xml. Close to the beginning is the block



Code: Select all

<PropertyList>
    <path>cockpit-detailed.ac</path>



which determines what mesh file is loaded. Please change cockpit-detailed.ac into cockpit-detailed.ive or cockpit-detailed.osgb - see whether any of these cuts down loading times of the Shuttle compared with the *.ac (don't worry about things getting astray at this point, just startup time matters)

Thanks in advance!
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby hardba11 » Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:32 am

hello

here is a video which could interrest some of you ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb4prVsXkZU

cheers
contribs: mirage2000-5, statics models, LFRV - WIP: new aircraft, TFFJ - hobby: world tour in flightgear
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby amalahama » Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:13 pm

Thorsten wrote in Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:06 pm:Indeed, the Shuttle Crew Operations Manual is included in the distribution. Though it hardly qualifies as a tutorial... Even in the best case, you'll have to do some reading though - like NASA terminology - MECO for instance means 'main engine cutoff' and a post-MECO checklist is what you do after you're just made orbit and the engines are out - definitely not on the pad :D

By remarkable coincidence, I uploaded this just today to my page:

Image

(click me)

It's designed to give a beginner-level introduction to Shuttle operations and FG-specific, i.e. explains what procedures are actually implemented and how (where to find the buttons...) It refers to the most recent stable milestone-7 - which Richard will hopefully upload to FGAddon over the next few days.

Please note that while the manual is available free of charge for FG users, it is not licensed GPL, nor will it be.


Just bravo Thorsten! :D Very comprehensive and easy to follow, perfect to help us to tame this beast. By the way, what's the recommended FG version (and most stable) to use with the last Space Shuttle version? I'm using FG 2016 3.1 but actually ver. 2.1 run better at my rig. And I would swear that the overhead and aft switches were visible at some point in the past, are they removed now from the cockpit mesh?

Regards!
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Thorsten » Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:41 am

By the way, what's the recommended FG version (and most stable) to use with the last Space Shuttle version?


It's tested with 2016 3.1 and the version now uploaded to SVN will work with the release.

I don't think I've been using too many new features of the core, so older version will probably work (with progressive breakage as you go back, at some point Shader effects won't be there, then the sunward vector for the thermal computations will be gone,...) I'm guessing 2016 2.1 should be fine, but no promises.

And I would swear that the overhead and aft switches were visible at some point in the past, are they removed now from the cockpit mesh?


They're part of the detail mesh which in the devel version is loaded on-demand by a simulation option. Since the mesh is not fully textured and animated and there's this loading time penalty of 5 minutes for some users which we don't understand, I have disabled the option in the release for reasons of pain/gain till we figure out what is going on - you can restore it by removing the comments in Models/SpaceShuttle.xml around the loader of cockpit-detailed.xml
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby abassign » Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:45 pm

I tested it this morning to make a small review on the blog FGFS Italy (on FB), it worked perfectly and the speed of execution is excellent. I hope that some readers will learn the use of this beautiful, but of course complicated the aircraft! A really nice job and a wonderful lighting effect. The only problem is the color of the cabin lining that tends to be too blue as I saw (in a real machine) and as we see in the pictures:

Image

Image
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Thorsten » Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:54 pm

The real-life pic is taken under full artificial light - hence you should compare this (full artificial light in-sim)

Image

During the day portion of the orbit, there's lots of indirect light from Earth - which has a strong blue tint.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby abassign » Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:52 pm

In fact it is the usual debate on the color temperature, which in space is over 15,000 ° K! But the movies and the pictures I have always noticed that the interior lighting is always dominant and therefore restores a much more "comfortable color temperature."
Perhaps it would be better to "turn on the light" inside the cabin under normal flight conditions ;)

I did a test, the effect, in day, is strange there is a color mix blue end white or ivory white :

Image

I did a test, the effect, in night, is good:
Image

But the rules are not followed for the external parts, which are instead to be a white, ivory white.

Image

To be honest, but I've always seen the pictures of the shuttle interior during the flight, with the same exterior colors. Likely that blue is most noticeable when the lights are low, but when the lights are high does not seem to me that the blue effect is present.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Thorsten » Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:04 pm

Let's say that interior lighting in orbit is... complicated. Rather than ambient light as on the surface, you have an area light source almost a hemisphere wide of which the color really depends on what terrain passes underneath. Also scattering from illuminated to shaded surfaces is a much more important player than on the surface.

The model-interior shader is a bit out of its depth here... (also the exterior shader doesn't include all lighting I know should be there).
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Hooray » Sat Nov 12, 2016 8:42 pm

there's this loading time penalty of 5 minutes for some users which we don't understand


If this can be reproduced, it woud make sense to run the whole thing via gdb and then use CTRL+C, and bt (backtrace) to see what's going on there - this should be done for all threads (thread apply all bt).

Alternatively, use the "built-in profiler" (wiki) and exit FlightGear immediately after booting has finished and post the result here, that will tell us exactly what was runnning, and where it called from
Please don't send support requests by PM, instead post your questions on the forum so that all users can contribute and benefit
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Thorsten » Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:11 am

Thanks, it's been traced to the OSG optimizer running over the mesh by now. If you follow the mailing list, we've been discussing using a binary format rather than *.ac and use a binary mesh over which the optimizer has already been run. It just needs test data (for some reason, my installation seems much different in how it uses the optimizer, though we haven't found the reason).
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Hooray » Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:12 am

Thanks for the update, no, I haven't been following the devel list.

Note that there are also environment variables that you can set to get additional information from OSG, and to troubleshoot this further: http://trac.openscenegraph.org/projects ... tVariables

(Given your feedback, it seems that the OPTIMIZER paragraph would seem most relevant for the time being, i.e. you could tinker with different settings and draw your conclusions based on what you observe (or don't))
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