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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby wlbragg » Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:27 pm

@Richard,

I don't know if you remember any of this or if you even know about it. While I was working on Panel R1 I discovered a duplicate layer of the switch covers. Do you remember a reason for this? I noticed the duplicate had the red texture applied to it and the originals had a black texture applied. I don't think it is just the R1 panel that's like this. RL Shuttle images show red covers for the most part, although I didn't verify every one of them.

Image

Image
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Richard » Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:22 pm

wlbragg wrote in Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:27 pm:I don't know if you remember any of this or if you even know about it. While I was working on Panel R1 I discovered a duplicate layer of the switch covers. Do you remember a reason for this? I noticed the duplicate had the red texture applied to it and the originals had a black texture applied. I don't think it is just the R1 panel that's like this. RL Shuttle images show red covers for the most part, although I didn't verify every one of them.


When I did most of the separation work of the elements I intended the red guards to be in a separate group. Chances are that I probably thought I'd deleted the originals but didn't. The way I'd usually find duplicates is by simply hiding things until there is nothing left; and if during this process something is hidden that was clicked and yet it remains then it's probably a duplicate.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby wlbragg » Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:17 pm

OK, I'll get rid of the associated originals and keep the red duplicates as their own group, thanks.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby wlbragg » Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:22 pm

Panel R1 is finished barring any mistakes.

Image

There are several switches and breaker "buttons" that are not tied to any code yet (and may never be). But I decided to add those objects for possible future use, they are active and have animations for their position and any talkbacks they may be tied to. However, in reality they are doing nothing in the sim.
My question is, they are currently defaulted to the off or closed position, do we care what they default to?

Following are the "dummy" objects.

Switches and Buttons.
Code: Select all
            <object-name>ac-bus-snsr</object-name>
            <object-name>ac-bus-snsr2</object-name>
            <object-name>ac-bus-snsr3</object-name>
            <object-name>ac-cont-1a</object-name>
            <object-name>ac-cont-1b</object-name>
            <object-name>ac-cont-1c</object-name>
            <object-name>ac-cont-2a</object-name>
            <object-name>ac-cont-2b</object-name>
            <object-name>ac-cont-2c</object-name>
            <object-name>ac-cont-3a</object-name>
            <object-name>ac-cont-3b</object-name>
            <object-name>ac-cont-3c</object-name>
            <object-name>cont-bus-pwr-mn-a</object-name>
            <object-name>cont-bus-pwr-mn-b</object-name>
            <object-name>cont-bus-pwr-mn-c</object-name>
            <object-name>ess-bus-src-fc1</object-name>
            <object-name>ess-bus-src-fc2</object-name>
            <object-name>ess-bus-src-fc3</object-name>
            <object-name>ess-bus-src-mn-ab</object-name>
            <object-name>ess-bus-src-mn-bc</object-name>
            <object-name>ess-bus-src-mn-ca</object-name>
            <object-name>h2-man-valve-1</object-name>
            <object-name>h2-man-valve-2</object-name>
            <object-name>h2-tank1a-heat</object-name>
            <object-name>h2-tank1b-heat</object-name>
            <object-name>h2-tank2a-heat</object-name>
            <object-name>h2-tank2b-heat</object-name>
            <object-name>h2-tank3a-heat</object-name>
            <object-name>h2-tank3b-heat</object-name>
            <object-name>o2-man-valve-1</object-name>
            <object-name>o2-man-valve-2</object-name>
            <object-name>o2-tank1-r-t</object-name>
            <object-name>o2-tank2-r-t</object-name>
            <object-name>o2-tank3-r-t</object-name>
            <object-name>o2-tank1a-heat</object-name>
            <object-name>o2-tank1b-heat</object-name>
            <object-name>o2-tank2a-heat</object-name>
            <object-name>o2-tank2b-heat</object-name>
            <object-name>o2-tank3a-heat</object-name>
            <object-name>o2-tank3b-heat</object-name>
            <object-name>pl-aft-mn-b</object-name>
            <object-name>pl-aft-mn-c</object-name>
            <object-name>pl-aux</object-name>
            <object-name>pl-cabin</object-name>
            <object-name>pl-pri-fc3</object-name>
            <object-name>pl-pri-mn-b</object-name>
            <object-name>pl-pri-mn-c</object-name>


If they have a talkback.
Code: Select all
        <object-name>h2-mv1-op</object-name>
        <object-name>h2-mv2-op</object-name>
        <object-name>o2-mv1-op</object-name>
        <object-name>o2-mv2-op</object-name>
        <object-name>pri-fc3-on</object-name>
        <object-name>pri-mn-b-on</object-name>
        <object-name>pri-mn-c-on</object-name>
        <object-name>h2-mv1-cl</object-name>
        <object-name>h2-mv2-cl</object-name>
        <object-name>o2-mv1-cl</object-name>
        <object-name>o2-mv2-cl</object-name>
        <object-name>pri-fc3-off</object-name>
        <object-name>pri-mn-b-off</object-name>
        <object-name>pri-mn-c-off</object-name>
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby wlbragg » Thu Feb 25, 2016 3:32 am

The panel hidden inside the bulkhead has a corresponding panel hidden inside the bulkhead on the other side (the left side) of the cockpit. From the dimensions and the looks of them I think they are suppose to be the forward facing panels on those bulkheads. I'm not sure about the first one that Thorsten brought up that is visible on the back of the right bulkhead. It is either totally misplaced or maybe needs to be flipped around to face forward. As soon as I verify what the deal is I'll let you know. I already deleted the two panels on the left before I realized there was one on the right. If they belong there I will cut them into their own object group and place them where they belong.

UPDATE

OK, All those panels are suppose to be there, well at least close by where they are at.
R4 is the hidden panel in the wall and needs to be moved forwards. R7 is the one behind the wall and it belongs pretty much right where it is at. I don't see it in the hi-res pano's of Endeavour though. But it is clearly marked in the Crew Manual.
The panel inside the left bulkhead is the forward facing L4.

Time passes and,

Panels R4, R7 and L4 are separated into groups and re-positioned appropriately. Their UV mapping is either none existent or wrong still.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby wlbragg » Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:26 am

I was looking at the cockpit textures (or lack thereof) and mapped a couple non-textured objects to a texture. Let me know what you think and if you all want me me to push the changes?

Before
Image

After
Image

If you would rather test it before making it official, I could push a new branch to test under different lighting conditions?
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby J Maverick 16 » Thu Feb 25, 2016 2:12 pm

Wow, nice job on that cockpit guys, well done.
Space Shuttle must be a huge file right now with all those detailed things...
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Müller » Thu Feb 25, 2016 2:46 pm

Space Shuttle is without a doubt the best work in the FG in recent years, congratulations to those who are developing working in this magnificent project. :D
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby wlbragg » Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:07 pm

Thanks guy's, I'm sure everyone involved with the projects appreciates the kind words.


@Richard,

The backside of the panels have a bunch of extraneous faces that really don't do anything (as far as I know) except raise the vertex count. They don't seem to change the panel view when removed.
I removed the ones on panel R1 and am doing the same for panel L1. I thought I better let you know before I get too far in case you wanted them there for a reason unknown to me.

Image
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Thorsten » Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:11 pm

Kick 'em - we don't need no invisible vertices ;-)
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby wlbragg » Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:57 pm

Just to be sure, if you look really close you can see some relief but only on the bottom (2). It's gone in (3) after I removed the verts behind the panel.
The bigger edge around the entire panel (4) is more pronounced, I'll leave that one alone for now.
Shouldn't we be able to add the relief shadow with a texture and/or bump map anyway, if we wanted, rather than having all the extra vertices?

Image
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Richard » Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:03 pm

wlbragg wrote in Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:57 pm:Just to be sure, if you look really close you can see some relief but only on the bottom (2). It's gone in (3)ble to add the relief shadow with a texture and/or bump map anyway


I've already removed lots of vertices, for example the nut at the bottom of the toggle switches, although there are still quite a few remaining.

Generally if it does not make much of a visible difference then remove them.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Thorsten » Fri Feb 26, 2016 6:30 am

If we need such small relief details in the future, we can always use a normal map, that's the standard way of rendering them. Building them into the mesh seems excessive...
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Thorsten » Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:58 am

I wonder if someone who is good at modeling could create/hunt down GPL textures for the ISS meshes I have from the NASA site. I'm fairly sure someone must have done that before, but it'd involve some model conversion to ac format I guess.
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Re: Space Shuttle

Postby Thorsten » Sat Feb 27, 2016 6:36 pm

Docking is a bitch,,,

At days like today, I wish we had a genuine space engine, not a flightsim which needs to be tricked at every corner.

So, we have the Shuttle and ISS. We need to compute ISS orbit in inertial coordinates (because that's where the equations of motion hold). However, we need to tell FG to place it in Earth co-rotating coordinates (because the model placement code wants that rather than intertials). However, we need to tell FG about the ISS attitude in LVLH (local vertical, local horizon) coordinates, which vexingly change attitude all the time even if inertial attitude is simple constant. And since we need to check the docking collar location against the docking collar of the station, and the docking collar is displaced by a fixed amount in body coordinates from the reference location of the Shuttle, we have a transformation from body to inertial coordinates as well.

So there's a grand total of four different coordinate systems involved in making all of this work, as well as hand-overs from static to dynamically updated models (to get the equations of motion right when the Shuttle is docked, ISS becomes a displaced point mass - so you can actually yank the station around using thrusters...) - and of course when undocking, we need to leave the station in the changed attitude.

And of course to get the guidance information, we need to operate from a station-relative coordinate system...

It's a genuinely nasty problem by all accounts. It's not trivial to fly either, though I am getting better at this (had to do it more than a few times for testing purposes...).
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