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Space Shuttle - Development

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Re: Space Shuttle - Development

Postby wkitty42 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:18 pm

i don't know either and weirdly, i don't find it at blendswap in the provided like from the xml files... maybe he changed it? i dunno...
"You get more air close to the ground," said Angalo. "I read that in a book. You get lots of air low down, and not much when you go up."
"Why not?" said Gurder.
"Dunno. It's frightened of heights, I guess."
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Re: Space Shuttle - Development

Postby wlbragg » Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:28 pm

The crisp sharp edges were created using an edge modifier and the over head was immense, so we removed it.
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Re: Space Shuttle - Development

Postby legoboyvdlp » Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:39 pm

Wlbragg, I think he's referring to the textures; not the model as well, shouldn't the edge modifier (assuming you mean blender) just affect normals, not the actual vertices?
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Re: Space Shuttle - Development

Postby amalahama » Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:48 pm

legoboyvdlp wrote in Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:39 pm:Wlbragg, I think he's referring to the textures; not the model as well, shouldn't the edge modifier (assuming you mean blender) just affect normals, not the actual vertices?


Yeah exactly, I'm referring to the textures. It's not a hugely expensive model either, if the 3D model is the same and only the textures are missing in the CC version, I think we can afford a small donation campaign for buying the textures...
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Re: Space Shuttle - Development

Postby GinGin » Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:03 pm

I would be definitely in the dotation campaign
That could be a nice fine tuning for some hard to read panels
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Re: Space Shuttle - Development

Postby wlbragg » Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:16 pm

assuming you mean blender

Yes I was referring to Blender edge modifier and the mesh.
I really don't know anything about the edge modifier or what exactly it was doing, other than it was an issue? It's been a long time since I dealt with it and like so many things, I have forgotten more about it than I remember. Normals, sounds right, all I remember is I had an issue with it. I think it was more to do with Blender and the ac exporter. I know it really helped speed things up to remove the modifier, maybe it was only in Blender that I had issues with it. I also remember it was mainly the detailed mesh that used the modifier, I think either Richard or someone else must have cleaned up the existing mesh by the time I came into the project. As far as I remember the edge modifier was not carried over to FG and had no effect in FG by removing it from Blender mesh. Also the mesh was all double sided. So much detail, most of it inherently negative for animating, which is not considered optimized for animation as used in a sim like FlightGear.

As far as the textures, my understanding is we had permission to use Chris's hi-def images to rip for our textures. That presented its own problem.

It's not a hugely expensive model either

Yeah it is! Especially when you add it to the overhead of code needed to drive the systems for the Shuttle experience.
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Re: Space Shuttle - Development

Postby amalahama » Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:23 pm

Thanks wlbragg. My point was not to buy the model to use it instead of the current model, but, since the current cockpit is based on Christ', just acquire the rights to use its hi-def textures in the current cockpit. I know it's not a copy paste work, but if the texture wrapping didn't change excessively it might be quite straightforward. Just my two cents
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Re: Space Shuttle - Development

Postby wlbragg » Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:25 pm

but if the texture wrapping didn't change excessively

Unfortunately It is not remotely the same!
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Re: Space Shuttle - Development

Postby GinGin » Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:00 pm

Thanks for the highlight Wayne.
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Re: Space Shuttle - Development

Postby wlbragg » Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:05 pm

I don't know what Chris used for text fonts in his models, most of the textures we ripped were from photographs of the actual Shuttle interior (with permission), so they were the font used in the real thing. There were some we couldn't rip so we used an alternate. We had a choice and could have made our own clean font but opted to try where ever possible to use the Shuttle's font.
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Re: Space Shuttle - Development

Postby Gomendio » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:38 am

GinGin wrote in Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:03 pm:I would be definitely in the donation campaign


If finally could have been feasible to do it, I'd have putted myself through that donation without a hint of a doubt.
What a beauty of 3d model. Jaw dropped for a couple of secs.
Count me in as well if finally something could be done.

Anyway, in the meantime there's a lot of training to do with the new failure scenario implementation.
Currently trying to elaborate a kind o guide to follow as close as possible the training scenarios of the real crews, more like
the LOFT and IOT check rides the commercial crews have to suffer in the Level D sim every 6 months.

Despite the "openness" NASA shows regarding real ops material, Non nominal sim training and Sim training syllabus is nowhere to be found :|

( Un placer verte por estos foros Pros Amalahama..DCS muy niño rata no?? :lol: )
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Re: Space Shuttle - Development

Postby Thorsten » Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:18 pm

Okay, with regard to the model:

Chris Kuhn has given permission to use the untextured model for our purpose, but he is selling the textured variant, so we do not have permission to use his textures.

Buying the textured model won't help us a bit, because we could not possibly afford it - in essence we'd have to pay Chris all the money he'd ever hope to make with the textured variant, because we need to distribute GPL (no, we can not rip dependencies out of the Shuttle), and once we do that, Chris has nothing to sell anymore because everyone could get it from us basically for free.

So anyone who wants better textures has to take a camera, travel to Washington D.C., take ortho-photos of the cockpit of the Shuttle that's on display in the Udvar-Hazy Center, agrees to license his work GPL and then fires up blender to work on texturing.

Or hires a texture artist for us who does the work as contract with the provision that it's going to be GPL (that's where your donation can make a difference) - none of us is a professional.

But I have no plans to organize any such thing, so someone else has to take charge of such an effort (and notify me once there's something to be committed).

Currently trying to elaborate a kind o guide to follow as close as possible the training scenarios of the real crews


There will be a section in the manual (as usual), you just need to wait for documentation to catch up with development.
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Re: Space Shuttle - Development

Postby Thorsten » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:54 pm

Since BFS has now its own set of CWS warning messages (most of them coincide with PASS, but there's some that are specific to either system, so I had to separate them) removing the blinking last message from BFS now requires depressing key on the keypad talking to BFS.

Does anyone know whether this is as it should be, or does BFS listen to PASS keystrokes when acknowledging messages as well?

And how about the case that PASS does not show a message but BFS does?

I'm somewhat confused as to how this works in detail... :?:
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Re: Space Shuttle - Development

Postby GinGin » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:34 pm

Very nice.
I will write a more detailed post tomorrow with pictures

My understanding is that for SM failure , it will be displayed on bfs crt as it is driving the PL bus in ops 1,3,6
BFS is not in the pass common set, so we should clear the sm fault message only on the bfs crt .

For GNC failure, it should appear on both pass and bfs crt as bfs is listening to pass

To sum up my understanding , when bfs is on and no pass gpc are running Sm function, SM fault should appear only on bfs crt and can be cleared only with bfs crt keypad
GNC fault can be cleared from any keyboard linked to a pass crt ( clearing also the bfs one as it is listening to pass)


In a more general way, everything that happens in pass for cw should appear on bfs with the listening stuff.
If we clear the thing on the pass , it will be cleared both on pass and bfs
But if we clear it only on the bfs, message will stay on the pass


All the fault/cw that are just triggered within bfs should require an action on the bfs keyboard only as it is a simplex out of the cs ( and should appear only on it).
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Re: Space Shuttle - Development

Postby GinGin » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:55 pm

I found that for the fault typo:

Image


So in orbit , Fault From Sm will be notified through gpc 4
Ascent and entry, it will be via gpc 5 bfs
Even if gpc 1 is connected to pl1/2 in case of bfs failure , bfs is the primary mean for sm during ops 1/3, so I think it is like you coded it.
Sm fault only shown and erasable from bfs keyboard

Image



Fault within common set

Image



Concerning BFS listening


Image



I thought DK listen would be about fault reset or stuff like that, but it concerned some actions on some Pass mm that will be automatically done also into the same bfs mm

Image




Other minor subject , I remember we talked once about the time displayed during ops 1.
It is well the MET by default and not GMT

Image

Image




@Gomendio: For the non normal syllabus thing, I didn’t find so far any detailed docs about sim sessions.
But in 3 or 4 years of sim session, I guess they went through to all the major failure we can find in the pocket checklist

https://www.nasa.gov/centers/johnson/pdf/366508main_APCL_G_O_1.pdf




That is a good basis to work on failure .
For example, the mains bus or fuel cell shortage
Very similar way to handle the multi conditional path like in a qrh
And before going through that, you will need to know quite well the associated scom chapter ( like fcom 2 knowledge before going through qrh)

Image
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