Board index FlightGear Multiplayer events Air traffic control

Tips for new ATC's (and new-in-experience-but-not-in-time)

ATC systems, events and procedures.

Re: Tips for new ATC's (and new-in-experience-but-not-in-tim

Postby Omega » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:59 pm

@Definee, If you are flying into Amsterdam airspace using airways (which will be most of the time), enable the "World Hi" (or World Lo if you are utilizing low airways) on skyvector and you will see a boundary of the Amsterdam FIR. Every airway has a sector entry waypoint that is part of the airway. As CaptB mentioned, if you are within range, contact me about 25NM from that waypoint, otherwise wait until you are within range.
If you are arriving into any Dutch airport, the first waypoint of your STAR (e.g. NORKU, HELEN, REDFA, etc.) will also be the sector entry point.

A few reasons of why I'm the only FG controller who provides top-down service for a whole FIR:
  • 100NM covers a good portion of the FIR. The only big portion that's not covered is the very north portion over the North Sea where there is a lot of restricted airspace. No one really flies up there except for aircraft overflying the FIR while enroute.
  • Unlike other airports, none of the STARs into any Dutch airport are runway-dependent. This alleviates the need of having ATC assign a STAR for every aircraft based on the active runway. Therefore if a pilot is utilizing a STAR, they can start flying/planning for it even without being within range.
  • Top-down service is fun! You can fly to other Dutch airports and still receive service or even fly VFR under controlled airspace and still receive basic information service (A simulation of Amsterdam FIS basically).

I'm also a VATSIM C1 controller (with previous experience as an I3) and I have deep understanding of both FAA and general ICAO regulations as well as some knowledge on other regional regulations such as UK's CAP 413.

@KL-666, Be aware that VATSIM does not natively support FG and even if you were flying on VATSIM with FG, the experience would be horrible when compared to other sims. Most people here either can't afford a commercial sim product plus the add-ons that come with it or they use an OS other than windows.
As far as if you want to fly realistically or not, it's whatever floats your boat. The majority of people in this thread want to learn more about aviation and simulate it properly, this is what a simulator is for.
The FG multiplayer is open to everyone and for people with different interests. I strongly condemn criticizing a group of people because they are interested in something else.
The engine is the heart of an aeroplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User avatar
Omega
 
Posts: 594
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:46 pm
Callsign: Star,EHAA_CT,MIA0176
IRC name: Omega
Version: GIT
OS: Vista,7,Ubuntu 10.04

Re: Tips for new ATC's (and new-in-experience-but-not-in-tim

Postby KL-666 » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:06 pm

I strongly condemn criticizing a group of people because they are interested in something else.


Can you point out the criticizing, or stop condemning. If you read well i pointed out my take on this whole undertaking, not more and not less. Trying to help you avoid sitting alone all night.

Kind regards, Vincent.
KL-666
 
Posts: 784
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:32 pm

Re: Tips for new ATC's (and new-in-experience-but-not-in-tim

Postby henrikp » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:08 pm

Since (in FG multiplayer) the level of skill and the need for realism accuracy can vary from wall to wall, I wait for the pilot to contact me first (if there isn't any flightplan) or let them fly the way they want if they aren't interested of needing any services. Everyone is happy this way. I myself have thought of going for VATSIM as well but as I find more fun developing scenery instead, I find this enviroment overall more relaxed than over there. If I didn't have a wife and 2 kids and a full time job I would think probably otherwise :)
henrikp
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:59 am
Location: Estonia
Callsign: ES-KLA
IRC name: ahven
Version: git
OS: Gentoo

Re: Tips for new ATC's (and new-in-experience-but-not-in-tim

Postby Omega » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:49 pm

Can you point out the criticizing.

:arrow:
KL-666 wrote:If you really like that kind of "realism", why not just use vatsim.

I think that the majority of people in this thread already know very well of the existence of VATSIM or IVAO. Each has their own personal reason of why they don't utilize these networks.
CaptB was answering Definee's question when he said "file a flightplan". No one is forcing you to file a flightplan or fly a SID/STAR.
Then you obviously posted on this thread to express your personal disapproval of "that kind of realism".
I don't know about you but for me, asking "why not just use vatsim" sounds like you really don't want this "kind of realism" in FG at all. While the rest of us believe that ATC realism can benefit the FG community.
KL-666 wrote:But if you do not believe me, just go ahead.

In this statement you are further expressing your disapproval and you want other people to believe in you.
Possibly because you think that only your opinion is correct and everyone else is wrong.

That's just how interpret your words, please excuse me if that interpretation is invalid.
The engine is the heart of an aeroplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User avatar
Omega
 
Posts: 594
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:46 pm
Callsign: Star,EHAA_CT,MIA0176
IRC name: Omega
Version: GIT
OS: Vista,7,Ubuntu 10.04

Re: Tips for new ATC's (and new-in-experience-but-not-in-tim

Postby Definee » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:14 pm

Thanks for all the help guys. (Excepting for all the arguing which I think is completely unnecessary.)

@Omega I prefer "What ever floats your goat!" more Lol! Image

Also, this picture is completely unneeded as well.

Oh. Im sorry. I forgot that this thread was about tips for new ATC's, not on the pilot side. Sorry but oh well.
Fly JAFVA
N3362C
F-36
"To some people the sky is the limit, to those who love aviation, The sky is home."
Definee
 
Posts: 347
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:55 am
Callsign: F_36
IRC name: Definee
Version: 3.2
OS: Mac OSX

Re: Tips for new ATC's (and new-in-experience-but-not-in-tim

Postby KL-666 » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:36 pm

Hello Omega,

There is quite some misunderstanding arising here.

I don't know about you but for me, asking "why not just use vatsim" sounds like you really don't want this "kind of realism" in FG at all.


To me "why not just use vatsim" means "why reinvent the wheel". You already explained that the vatsim experience is not very good in flightgear, so i understand that. You are right that i do not want this kind of realism. But that does not mean i do not want it at all in flightgear. I can fly some place else. That is the freedom of multiplayer.

As the OP was about teaching new ATC's, i wanted to express my worry that if you teach the realistic atc, it might not be appreciated by everyone, leaving the new atc with a rather empty airport.

KL-666 wrote:But if you do not believe me, just go ahead.
In this statement you are further expressing your disapproval and you want other people to believe in you.


This is just a reiteration of the freedom to do as you like in multiplayer. But i do express my worry about going too realistic. Putting disapproval in these words goes way further than what is written.

Kind regards, Vincent
KL-666
 
Posts: 784
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:32 pm

Re: Tips for new ATC's (and new-in-experience-but-not-in-tim

Postby onox » Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:04 am

If you're afraid of ATC and want to fly your big 747 as if it is a C172p, then go to KSFO.
onox
Retired
 
Posts: 431
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:45 pm

Re: Tips for new ATC's (and new-in-experience-but-not-in-tim

Postby cain071546 » Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:37 am

You guys need to calm down and take a breath (it is normally me being reminded to be polite) so now its my turn to remind you guys to play nice! and if you really need to argue at least stay on topic its not about if you like using ATC, It's Tips for new ATC's.

Maybe move this conversation over to Hangar Talk?
two wrongs never made a right but two wrights made a airplane
cain071546
 
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:55 pm
Location: Washington USA
Callsign: cain
IRC name: cain
Version: 3.2
OS: Linux

Re: Tips for new ATC's (and new-in-experience-but-not-in-tim

Postby KL-666 » Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:14 am

Oh well Cain,

I do hope and believe Omega and i can understand eachother soon. Just a little misunderstanding. I think the content is still relevant to the OP, if you read around the misunderstandings.

Kind regards, Vincent
KL-666
 
Posts: 784
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:32 pm

Re: Tips for new ATC's (and new-in-experience-but-not-in-tim

Postby CaptB » Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:28 am

I fail to understand why fly in an airspace that is manned and controlled when one does not enjoy ATC.

We should always try to remember that we are all here to have some fun. For a controller it happens to mean providing separation, following procedures and using phraseology. There are simply no other reasons for an ATC to exist online at all.

Some pilots do not possess sufficient knowledge, skills or share a view with KL-666 where they do not care for immersion and will "just not do" this or that, they feel they have the right to do so on a structureless network. That's fine because I can excercise my right too and deny service. In some cases I provide minimal control if possible or deny service all together ( politely inform them that service is terminated and tick ignore in ATC-Pie - out of sight, out of mind )
CaptB
 
Posts: 505
Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 6:36 pm
Callsign: EKCH_AP
IRC name: CAPTB
Version: 2018.1
OS: Xubuntu, Win7 64

Re: Tips for new ATC's (and new-in-experience-but-not-in-tim

Postby KL-666 » Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:35 am

CaptB, that is a bold accusation. Can you prove this with any of my behaviour?

Kind regards, Vincent
KL-666
 
Posts: 784
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:32 pm

Re: Tips for new ATC's (and new-in-experience-but-not-in-tim

Postby CaptB » Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:48 am

KL-666 wrote in Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:35 am:CaptB, that is a bold accusation. Can you prove this with any of my behaviour?


This is what I assumed from your post, and it also happens that it is what some pilots seem to be doing. I do not think I had you in my airspace so I have no idea what you actually do while online, If I have misjudged you or misunderstood your post then of course I apologise.
CaptB
 
Posts: 505
Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 6:36 pm
Callsign: EKCH_AP
IRC name: CAPTB
Version: 2018.1
OS: Xubuntu, Win7 64

Re: Tips for new ATC's (and new-in-experience-but-not-in-tim

Postby KL-666 » Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:22 am

Well, i've been a couple of times at ekch with atc. But probably it was not you, else you would have remembered the guy that does not take stars or sids, but kindly requests to be vectored. And subsequently follows your instructions swiftly and accurately. Finally making the best landings you have ever seen on your airport. But if that did not leave an impression, then it was probably not you there.

Kind regards, Vincent
KL-666
 
Posts: 784
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:32 pm

Re: Tips for new ATC's (and new-in-experience-but-not-in-tim

Postby Definee » Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:11 pm

No offense, but are we really bragging now... :?
Fly JAFVA
N3362C
F-36
"To some people the sky is the limit, to those who love aviation, The sky is home."
Definee
 
Posts: 347
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:55 am
Callsign: F_36
IRC name: Definee
Version: 3.2
OS: Mac OSX

Re: Tips for new ATC's (and new-in-experience-but-not-in-tim

Postby danielHL » Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:10 pm

Regarding realism and complexity, as an ATC in EDDH I try to adjust to the pilot as much as he wants. If someone appears on the apron, a flight plan is filed, he contacts me first calling me "Hamburg delivery" and so on, then he can expect to be informed about frequency changes, handoffs to other controllers (also me in that case), get vectors or clearance for entire sids just as he/she wants.

On the other hand, if I don't know someone or he tells me he's new to the area, I will go easy and provide the bare minimum. Landing: can the pilot use VOR/ILS or even GPS? Expect vectors to ILS and support during final approach. Departure: tell me where you want to go and your first waypoint and I will vector you there. That's basically all I expect from pilots. Oh and crash free flying of course ;)

I had both types of pilots online at the same time and nobody seemed to care that some got more detailed and complex clearances than others.

CU
Daniel
danielHL / GVA0387 / D-FMPW / (UA83DAN)
danielHL
 
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri May 02, 2014 6:23 pm
Callsign: UA83DAN, GVA0387
Version: git
OS: Linux

PreviousNext

Return to Air traffic control

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest