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Tips for new ATC's (and new-in-experience-but-not-in-time)

ATC systems, events and procedures.

Tips for new ATC's (and new-in-experience-but-not-in-time)

Postby legoboyvdlp » Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:55 pm

I wonder whether some experts (thinking of Omega and Jomo especially) could give some input on ATCing, and give tips for new ATCs? This would be a great resource for newer ATC's.

Just let me add to this that you should never do ATC within 100 miles of KSFO as 1. Un-controlled traffic is a problem and 2. It may seem intimidating if some new person logs on to MP to face a multitude of messages about vectors, sids, stars, and other technical stuff. Of course, there are some excellent players in that region, but again, uncontrolled traffic is not very nice.
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Re: Tips for new ATC's (and new-in-experience-but-not-in-tim

Postby CaptB » Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:47 am

I am an active and long time virtual ATC (VATSIM C1/SUP) and I'm available both here and on mumble for both ATC and pilots in regards to general procedures/phraseology ( Europe/Standard ICAO) whenever EKCH_AP is online, and especially on "open" sessions. Earliest open session 2nd March 1900-2000 (UTC/Z)

Don't be shy :)
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Re: Tips for new ATC's (and new-in-experience-but-not-in-tim

Postby simbambim » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:56 am

What is open session?
And why do you control approach if you're center?
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Re: Tips for new ATC's (and new-in-experience-but-not-in-tim

Postby CaptB » Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:08 pm

simbambim wrote in Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:56 am:What is open session?
And why do you control approach if you're center?


Open means your friendly controller is online with --verbose and --help options enabled :D Where did I exactly mention that I am controlling Center?
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Re: Tips for new ATC's (and new-in-experience-but-not-in-tim

Postby simbambim » Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:36 pm

C1 isn't Center?
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Re: Tips for new ATC's (and new-in-experience-but-not-in-tim

Postby CaptB » Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:45 pm

simbambim wrote in Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:36 pm:C1 isn't Center?


Yes, on VATSIM C1 is enroute controller, which means you can control all positions top down or any position below your rating. On FlightGear's mplayer however, it is my feeling that it is not feasable yet for several reasons ( especially with larger, more complicated airspaces ) that's why I cover EKCH_AP ( Approach/Departure ) which covers lower positions as well if those are not online.
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Re: Tips for new ATC's (and new-in-experience-but-not-in-tim

Postby Definee » Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:28 pm

I have went to EHAM as omega was controlling. I did not know when to contact him and I did to late and had to make a fast descent. He told me I could find the boundaries on Skyvector but I could not find them. So when is it time to contact a controller?
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Re: Tips for new ATC's (and new-in-experience-but-not-in-tim

Postby islandmonkey » Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:48 pm

Contact them as soon as possible really, which should be close to 100 miles.
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Re: Tips for new ATC's (and new-in-experience-but-not-in-tim

Postby sanhozay » Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:13 pm

You should also be mindful of your distance and start your descent to be at a reasonable level by 80-100nm out. In the absence of center controllers, you can't wait for the ATC to tell you to start your descent because something like FL360 needs about 120nm to descend.

Multiplying your distance by 3 to get a flight level is the usual rule of thumb, e.g. 80nm ~ FL240 and 100nm ~ FL300, so you ought to be between FL240 and FL300 by the time you contact the ATC.
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Re: Tips for new ATC's (and new-in-experience-but-not-in-tim

Postby CaptB » Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:58 pm

Definee wrote in Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:28 pm:I did not know when to contact him and I did to late and had to make a fast descent. He told me I could find the boundaries on Skyvector


As I mentioned dealing with airspace boundaries is difficult at least for some airspaces in mplayer's case, partially because of the range limits and the lack of ATC client's capabilities in that regard.

Here are some things I consider reasonable rules of thumb that take into account some specifics of mplayer:

File a flight plan so that the ATC will have a clue of your intentions and can plan ahead and route you as needed ( clues such as if you are actually flying into one of "his/her" airports or if you are in transit )

If you are unable for any reason to file a flight plan, state your intentions clearely on initial contact.

If you are coming from an airspace with no ATC into an airspace with enroute control ( _CT ) and you do not know the airspace boundaries contact ATC at the latest 25nm from geographical boundaries of the country, you can check that on the tracker's maps ( geographical boundaries often correspond quite well with the airspace boundaries except for some delegated airspaces, disputed airspaces and airspace over the sea/ocean ).

If there is no enroute control and you are inbound an airport with approach control ( _AP ) contact ATC before you fly a STAR ( Standard Terminal Arrival Route) and reach T/D (Top of Descent ).

If there is no approach control and you are inbound an airport with tower control ( _TW ) IFR: contact ATC when established LOC/ILS or final VOR/NDB. VFR: contact ATC before entering control zone and state you are VFR ( 10-15nm radius is a simplification but good enough rule of thumb )
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Re: Tips for new ATC's (and new-in-experience-but-not-in-tim

Postby Turbo » Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:30 pm

CaptB, Just a caution note to your last post sometimes on FG there are ATC that call themselves tower however they are also controlling approach. Don't ask me why its a FG thing.

Here is a link to the Netherlands airspace structure.
http://www.bostonvirtualatc.com/charts/EHAM/ENR/EH_ENR_6_2_1_en_2013-05-02.pdf

Notes:
- Centres airspace starts when you cross the national border.
- EHRD Approach airspace is in light blue,
- EHAM approach airspace is in red
- When there no EHRD or EHAM approach EHAA_CT controls that airspace.
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Re: Tips for new ATC's (and new-in-experience-but-not-in-tim

Postby simbambim » Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:37 pm

Turbo wrote in Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:30 pm:Here is a link to the Netherlands airspace structure.
http://www.bostonvirtualatc.com/charts/EHAM/ENR/EH_ENR_6_2_1_en_2013-05-02.pdf


The same boundaries are on skyvector, Definee. Enable World VFR in the upper right corner to see them.
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Re: Tips for new ATC's (and new-in-experience-but-not-in-tim

Postby KL-666 » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:10 pm

Many atc's are trying to make things way to complex for a tiny server with 30 users on it. I for one am never going to:

- enter a flight plan
- enter a sid
- enter a star

This has various reasons of unrealism, because i have to open windows over my cockpit.

So what happens if an atc insists on this so called realism. I'll just not visit their airport anymore. If you really like that kind of "realism", why not just use vatsim. It already exists. No need to try to make a vatsim of fg mp. I sincerely believe that is a waste of effort.

Kind regards, Vincent
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Re: Tips for new ATC's (and new-in-experience-but-not-in-tim

Postby legoboyvdlp » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:35 pm

Ah, but don't forget that most pilots wishing to be realistic print out charts, not to mention that ATCs now can see your complete Flightgear-atc webpage flight plan in Open Radar. So it is up to yourself.

Some of us actually do want this "so called 'realism'" you know!
Last edited by Johan G on Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: No useless quoting please
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Re: Tips for new ATC's (and new-in-experience-but-not-in-tim

Postby KL-666 » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:40 pm

Some of us actually do want this "so called 'realism'" you know!


I am trying to issue a warning that there will be just the 3 of you total at any airport at any one time. But if you do not believe me, just go ahead.

Kind regards, Vincent
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