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New ATC client: ATC-pie

ATC-pie is a radar air traffic control simulation program for the FlightGear multi-player network.

Re: New ATC client: ATC-pie

Postby mickybadia » Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:07 pm

Hello, thank you for trying!

Though it is not exactly hidden, I did not publish the doc as to how to use ATC-pie and change switches and kept it in the dev wiki (the Gitorious space where you probably downloaded the sources). So I am sorry you have missed a few things that were there it seems.

The reason is that I had rather wished people would contact me as beta-testers so that I could (a) track a little who is testing on what platform, better to log remarks and get back to the right people when adjusting; (b) give a few platform-related explanations; and (c) give the links to the documentation, that which will eventually be moved to the FlightGear wiki.

Anyway, change of both callsign and airport are possible, and do not need any prior download. The only thing not addressed:

elgaton wrote in Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:06 pm:[*] displaying the localizer "cone" (as done in OR and on the FlightGear Map dialog) instead of just the extended runway centerline - this would help ATCs to know if the aircraft can catch the localizer when a plane is not performing a straight-in approach;


Easy to do, but tbh as an ATC I think this is more clutter (e.g. in the case of parallel RWYs) than actually useful, but I'll add it to the wish list anyhow.

Thank you for your time... and possibly your effort in getting this to run without doc!
If you or anyone else wants to try, get in touch!
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Re: New ATC client: ATC-pie

Postby lenny64600 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:03 am

Hi mickybadia !


I think it's great to introduce a new ATC client. I've tested ATC-pie and there are many interesting features! It's definitely realistic.

* Notifications
- It's nice to have a notification center, especially being able to know when there are METAR updates regarding weather information ;
- Also nice sound integration when someone is typing/connecting to MP/weather update/flight plan filed/...

* Realistic ATC job
ATC-pie offers very interesting points of what a real ATC would experience :
- not seeing the radar contact if pilot has no transponder, not seeing the altitude if transponder is not in C mode (ALT), ... ;
- differences between strip and flight plan > very nice feature to dissociate information relevant to the flight plan, and information relevant to the instructions you give to a pilot ;
- racks to manage strips more efficiently, with different personalized rack colors.

* Others
- Very practical way to assign headings/altitudes/speed using the radar ;
- Nice conflict management between radar contacts, strips, and flight plans ;
- Availability to record ATIS ;
- Rich and flexible radio management : several different frequencies, several PushToTalk buttons, several volumes/mute ;
- Link with flightgear-atc flight plans database.

It directly introduces transponder considerations, as it is the only element ATCs can rely on to identify radar contacts. I hope it will encourage pilots to use it more, and more efficiently.
What I like to do is always having a blank strip in case a pilot contacts me. I then fill the strip using the information pilot gives me, asks the pilot to squawk a particular code and assigns his strip to the radar contact. It then gives me time to fill a new flight plan and assign it to the strip.

Well, it's definitely a great job that has been done making this ATC client. It's highly focused on realism as ATC is a "blind" unless a contact puts his transponder in A or C (or S) mode. The ATC should thus be very attentive to what pilots say : every information has to be entered into the strip, and it's better not asking the pilot to repeat the information twice :-)

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Re: New ATC client: ATC-pie

Postby mickybadia » Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:57 pm

Hello Lenny,

Lovely message, thank you. Here are a few notes for info/debate:

lenny64600 wrote in Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:03 am:What I like to do is always having a blank strip in case a pilot contacts me. I then fill the strip using the information pilot gives me, asks the pilot to squawk a particular code and assigns his strip to the radar contact. It then gives me time to fill a new flight plan and assign it to the strip.

You can of course do it the way that suits you best, but I will follow up here to share a tip and thereby what I had in mind while thinking this through.

The way I thought of it is: ANY new contact from ANY station you hit F2, which pulls up a new strip detail sheet that you can straight away place on a rack (or leave unassigned), fill with everything the pilot tells you, pick a transponder code---all of it on the same sheet. Plenty of time later to actually file a plan if requested, plot a route or re-rack as preferred.

Perhaps you simply missed the keystroke, but in my opinion this makes you more responsive to new pilot contact (a critical moment!) than keeping a hanging blank strip "ready", for no actual aircraft in control and forcing you to switch to the right rack + double-click on it.

It's highly focused on realism as ATC is a "blind" unless a contact puts his transponder in A or C (or S) mode.

The point was realism indeed, but a few cheat options exist, which I am sure you have noticed:
- cheat whole radar = see everything on the scope that you would if everybody had a mode S turned on
- cheat by contact = useful for contacts who do not know what a transponder is, or don't know they need to give a callsign lol, so you don't keep asking them positions and/or altitudes and such
- cheat text chat = this actually set by default, as I see MP chat more as a game communication fallback than as a radio simulation replacement. but if you want hardcore sim, this turned off will hide all messages senders whose callsigns you are not supposed to know or have discovered yet

Fun controlling!
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Re: New ATC client: ATC-pie

Postby CaptB » Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:18 pm

First thanaks again for making ATC-Pie!

Here are my observations about usage and features ( no bugs discussed ). They're subjective because of my long time usage of Euroscope.

+ FPL integration
+ Realistic radar behaviour dependant on transponder
+ Advanced "cheat" modes
+ Distance/direction tool
+ Rack
+ ATIS
+ Custom labels at runtime
+ Multiple Squawk ranges
? An unusual, but effective way to assign ALT/IAS from the radar screen. Used to do that via pull down from the tag itself or from strips.
- Assigning speed from radar screen should not increment by 1. 10 or 5 as a minumum. I would never instruct " Reduce speed to 111KIAS"
? A small line with an undecoded metar should be possible to display somewhere, a good location would be between auto-center and LOC/GS buttons so that I would have the weather at a glance without clicking around tabs or having a big window with information I do not need ( decoded METAR ) taking up my screen.
? A small line with selection information, a good location would be between auto-center and LOC/GS buttons so that I would have the information at a glance without clicking around tabs or having a big window with information.
- No cone and detailed setup for LOC/GS
- No virtual views where clicking an F key would flick the view to another with a different zoom level, center and diplayed data.
? No known way to toggle range rings?
- No leader lines with min/nm estimate.
- No separation tools.
- No way to display only some navaids/waypoints.
? Text chat format is pretty obvious but there are table column names that take some space, are they necessary?
? No toggle route draw.
- No text aliases
? No known way to assign SID/STAR in the strip.
? No wake turbulence in the strip
- No .find command to zoom onto an airplane or navaid/waypoint from the text chat area, the navigator is noce, but again it takes up space/time
? Zoom slider redundant, mouse wheel better. Could be optional?
? No way to customize the TAG so that it would display ground GS/assigned KIAS, Assigned HDG etc.
? Distance to airport in selection window could be replaced by distance to any selected navaid/waypoint/airport/target/coordinate in the area, a lot like the .distance command in Euroscope ( which by the way can measure distances between two targets to help with separation )
? Different tab text colour when there is a change that would require my attention, reverts to normal when selected.
? An option to have a second window just for the windows and docks and one only for the scope and maybe text chat, for those with two or more screens.
-Strip displayes only callsign and SQ, nothing else until clicked to display a dialog. Little information available at a glance.

Having all the above in mind I found the default screen setup is not optimal.I moved things around this way:

Notifications as a tab at the same "dock" as text chat, not next to METAR
Radio moved to join METAR dock instead of Notifications
Flight Plans tab moved to strips area

Take care!
CaptB
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Re: New ATC client: ATC-pie

Postby mickybadia » Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:45 am

CaptB wrote in Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:18 pm:First thanaks again for making ATC-Pie!

Thanaks for thanacking, and for your precious and informed comments. A few questions and remarks below, but also many things simply added to the wish list.

- Assigning speed from radar screen should not increment by 1. 10 or 5 as a minumum. I would never instruct " Reduce speed to 111KIAS"

Sure, this was really proof of concept. I'll even add: do not go beyond reasonable values, e.g. negative thousands of feet altitude lol

EDIT: Done! Improved scales a little (less sensitive) and bounded the values (neg alt's was simply ridiculous). Speed increment is 10 kt.

? A small line with an undecoded metar should be possible to display somewhere, [...] so that I would have the weather at a glance without clicking around tabs

I was actually going to duplicate the two bigger-sized font infos of the weather pane (wind and QNH) in the status bar. Would that do? An option could be to choose between full raw METAR or that...

EDIT: Done! ensured wind and QNH always visible in bottom right-hand corner, these two being constantly needed in communications. Question is whether we need other weather details to use up similar space permanently.

EDIT2: Now the METAR string additionnaly shows in the status bar as well when there is no notification. QNH and wind above are permanent.

? A small line with selection information, a good location would be between auto-center and LOC/GS buttons so that I would have the information at a glance without clicking around tabs or having a big window with information.

True, but we'll have to choose a few. A line above the scope? Also docking the selection info pane somewhere UNtabbed will obviously keep them visible.

- No leader lines with min/nm estimate.

What does this mean exactly? Perhaps off topic or perhaps partially an answer: the course line when showing assignments shows a 5-minute fly time, and the "to mouse" block in selection info shows time to fly.

EDIT: Done! Combined with current & assigned course line indicator: speed marks drawn, one for every minute of fly time. Also combined with an assigned speed indicator: marks will point to show if accel/decel is needed to reach assignment. See the quick reference.

- No way to display only some navaids/waypoints.

Double-clicking on those will "pin" them, i.e. make their label persistent instead of mouse over. Though hiding the layer will hide even the pinned labels. I had the plan of making pinned labels resist to layer hiding, and you are in a way confirming that wish. Also related wish: save the pinned labels like the custom labels are saved. That way you'll be able to restore, say, an almost blank scope with only entry points made visible, even across sessions.

EDIT: Done! as described above

? Text chat format is pretty obvious but there are table column names that take some space, are they necessary?

Good point.

EDIT: Done!

? No known way to assign SID/STAR in the strip.

I have ideas on route management to avoid new fields on the strip, but that is linked to the discussion higher up in this thread. Definitely something to come some time about this...

? No wake turbulence in the strip

Yep, a few fields have remained missing. I'll arrange those when I need to kill half an hour.

- No .find command to zoom onto an airplane or navaid/waypoint from the text chat area, the navigator is noce, but again it takes up space/time

Like all docks you believe take space, you can close them and recall them when needed from menu or ALT+... shortcut. But good point, we should be able to find a plane from its strip (or chat message). How about centering the map on selection if "auto-centre" is pushed?

EDIT: There is actually no realistic reason to find an aircraft from a callsign if it has not been identified by you already. I'd rather allow auto-centre from linked strip selection only, as just typing a callsign (or clicking on chat) should not allow you to know where it is. Please comment.

EDIT2: Done! Now SHIFT-click on a strip will indicate the linked aircraft if any, possibly auto-centring if the option button is pushed. But as I said I think it makes no sense from MP chat so if this is desperately asked for again I shall call it a cheat mode.

? Zoom slider redundant, mouse wheel better. Could be optional?

Indeed I have NEVER used it. Let's see if anybody stands to defend it, or else I know what to do.

? No way to customize the TAG so that it would display ground GS/assigned KIAS, Assigned HDG etc.

True: ground speed value is not shown (other than selection only) while it is useful. Assigned heading I think is better seen by "show>assignments".

EDIT: Done! 3-digit speed indication added to info boxes.

? Distance to airport in selection window could be replaced by distance to any selected navaid/waypoint/airport/target/coordinate in the area, a lot like the .distance command in Euroscope ( which by the way can measure distances between two targets to help with separation )

I see the point, but how much better is this from SHIFT+right-click&drag?

? An option to have a second window just for the windows and docks and one only for the scope and maybe text chat, for those with two or more screens.

Already prepared (see "view" menu) but disabled because still buggy: open as many new radar scope windows as you want, each with its own visibility options and freely movable across screens/workspaces. Only the central area of the main window I still need to fill with something, so why not a radar there as well!

Having all the above in mind I found the default screen setup is not optimal.I moved things around this way: [...]

Once we have a dedicated ATC forum here or on lenny's website (or thread somewhere appropriate here), we can have a screenshot fight of GUI dock layout. I am sure there are many ways in which to arrange it better than the quick and dirty default suggested.

Really, thanks again.
Last edited by mickybadia on Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:33 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: New ATC client: ATC-pie

Postby PH-JAKE » Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:51 pm

Two other things that caught my eye. I spawned a C172 at EHTE, looked at the scope. This is what I saw:

Image

1) I can't make out the text from the label. Is this a font thing, or otherwise?
2) EHTE is missing, while the other ADs are there (I pinned them). Is this a problem with the (processing of) airport data?

Platform: Debian testing (soon to be stable, called jessie)
This was tested with the git version of this morning (4f1444f0561eef1024af851645db87ff8058ae0f)
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Re: New ATC client: ATC-pie

Postby r3vil0 » Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:35 pm

Hi, this looks like a brilliant piece of work and I would love to try it, however the flightgear wiki is unfortunatly currently (as it has been for the past few days) offline. If possible could I have a direct link to the download as I do not know when the wiki will be back online.

Thanks! :D
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Re: New ATC client: ATC-pie

Postby elgaton » Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:20 pm

Since you're on Linux, it's easier to get it using Git instead of the Download button on its Gitorious page. Open a terminal and type:
Code: Select all
cd ~
git clone https://gitorious.org/atc-pie/atc-pie.git

to download the client in a directory named "atc-pie" inside your home directory. Install the required dependencies with these commands:
Code: Select all
su
pacman -S python qt5 python-pyqt5 qt5-multimedia
exit


Run ATC-pie using these commands:
Code: Select all
cd ~/atc-pie
./ATC-pie.py ICAO

where ICAO is the ICAO code of the airport you'd like to control.

To update the client, perform:
Code: Select all
cd ~/ATC-pie
git pull

(mickybadia releases updates almost daily, so perform them frequently).
NIATCA 2nd admin, regular ATC at LIPX and creator of the LIPX custom scenery
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Re: New ATC client: ATC-pie

Postby mickybadia » Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:20 pm

WARNING: note on latest push (251736Z)...
New FGCom came out, with new command-line options and tree structure, so no backward compatibility. This creates a minor problem for those who are pulling from git and have already run the program, hence generated a settings file. Make sure you adjust the fgcom version in the general settings or delete the settings.ini file to fallback on correct defaults.

PH-JAKE wrote in Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:51 pm:I can't make out the text from the label. Is this a font thing, or otherwise?

I started having that too for a while and sorted it by reapplying DPI on font in "system settings". Now it does not happen anymore. Anyone learned about font management can brief me by email. Perhaps I'll try to force a font size but if it depends on DPI I am not sure how to address this best.

PH-JAKE wrote:EHTE is missing, while the other ADs are there (I pinned them). Is this a problem with the (processing of) airport data?

This airport is not in the FG airport index, which is why it is ignored from the data file. I can try and work my way without the index, but I suppose it was not included for the same problem I will run into: X-Plane spec for EHTE does not have a viewpoint. I can fall back on a runway location or sth I suppose.

EDIT: it actually *did* have a viewpoint, so I don't know at all why it was not in the FG index file. In any case I have changed the code to only rely on the X-Plane data and forget about this external FG resource. Now EHTE shows up fine. What I did about those NOT having a view point: place TWR just North of a runway end.

elgaton wrote in Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:20 pm:(mickybadia releases updates almost daily, so perform them frequently)

This will certainly not last forever lol, but I am trying to be as active and responsive in the wake of beta release.
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Re: New ATC client: ATC-pie

Postby mickybadia » Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:12 pm

EDIT: strikethrough below. Sections have been moved to the ATC-pie wiki page, where the doc is now to be found.

r3vil0 wrote in Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:35 pm:If possible could I have a direct link to the download as I do not know when the wiki will be back online.

Hello again, elgaton gave you the repos on Gitorious and all the beautiful commands to get hold of the source files, now let me point out the dev wiki as well (that one is up!), particularly this page: https://gitorious.org/atc-pie/pages/Using It will help you run and use the program, though a read through the FG wiki description would certainly have helped a lot. If you are desperate, you may find the contents in the dev wiki page history as it was prepared there before being promoted to the public one.
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Re: New ATC client: ATC-pie

Postby mickybadia » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:10 pm

ATTENTION thread watchers: ATC-pie first version now released as stable!

Downloading instructions available on wiki page: ATC-pie

Thank you all testers for your useful feedback and suggestions. I have tried to honour most of them, though always keeping real-life my first inspiration (at the risk of calling you all cheaters, haha).

Have fun, and make for safe flights.
Michael.
Last edited by Johan G on Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed broken link
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