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fg3.0rc1 memory usage

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Re: fg3.0rc1 memory usage

Postby Thorsten » Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:50 am

My idea was to disable the tower view when further than a couple of clicks from the AC, since the AC would become a dot anyway


The number of things that don't work in the tower view because supporting it when the aircraft is arbitrarily away is too costly is growing... I'd be all in favour of that idea!
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Re: fg3.0rc1 memory usage

Postby Hooray » Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:11 am

Agreed with Thorsten, some of your radio propagation-related changes are surely important even apart from the actual RP code, and I would love to seem these committed, even if they're entirely optional.
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Re: fg3.0rc1 memory usage

Postby F-JJTH » Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:55 pm

I agree with Adrian that the number of tiles loaded is mostly responsible of the memory load.
I done some test with the LOD settings (View > Adjust LOD ranges)

Scenery Detailed = 1500
Scenery Rough = 9 000
Scenery Bare = 120 000
Starting FGFS at LFNH (rwy 13) with TerraSync then sitting during 3 min in my cockpit (DR400 Dauphin) I can see that my memory load is stabilized at 1.9 GB
Then pressing Ctrl+u until 120 000 ft, after 10 min I can see that my memory load is stabilized at 10.6 GB


Scenery Detailed = 1500
Scenery Rough = 9 000
Scenery Bare = 30 000
Starting FGFS at LFNH (rwy 13) with TerraSync then sitting during 3 min in my cockpit (DR400 Dauphin) I can see that my memory load is stabilized at 1.9 GB
Then pressing Ctrl+u until 120 000 ft, after 10 min I can see that my memory load is stabilized at 3.7 GB


Scenery Detailed = 1500
Scenery Rough = 3 000
Scenery Bare = 6 000
Starting FGFS at LFNH (rwy 13) with TerraSync then sitting during 3 min in my cockpit (DR400 Dauphin) I can see that my memory load is stabilized at 1.1 GB
Then pressing Ctrl+u until 120 000 ft, after 5 min I can see that my memory load is stabilized at 1.4 GB


Windows 32 bits can't manage more than 2 GB per process ( http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library ... ory_limits ) BTW Linux 32 bits seems to be able to manage 3 GB.


The following settings: Scenery Detailed = 1500 | Scenery Rough = 9 000 | Scenery Bare = 30 000 are the default value in FG.
I conclude that our 32 bits users can't use FlightGear without changing the default LOD settings.



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Re: fg3.0rc1 memory usage

Postby Thorsten » Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:03 pm

I've been flying for years on a 32bit Linux system in France custom scenery with LOD and visibility set to 50 km max, and I've been doing 250 km visibility and LOD range on the same system in default scenery - screenshots to prove it are still here.

The terrain mesh isn't the issue.
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Re: fg3.0rc1 memory usage

Postby F-JJTH » Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:31 pm

France custom ( by Elmaxo ) is based on scenery v1.0 (the whole archive is around 950Mo)
Scenery v2.0 require much more memory. It could be interesting to know if you are still able to use your 32 bits system with scenery v2.0

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Re: fg3.0rc1 memory usage

Postby jomo » Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:11 pm

F-JJTH wrote in Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:31 pm:It could be interesting to know if you are still able to use your 32 bits system with scenery v2.0

If that is a true concern I guess we need to react very fast - because right now we "suggest" everybody to download v.2.0 -- with TerraSync we even enforce it!

Can somebody say how much percentage is the download-part of 32 or 64 bit version? I guess 32bit is still a lot in use! (And complies very nicely with the Para. "2.2 System Requirements" in the "getstart.pdf" in 3.0.0. ".../flightgear/docs". I would not trust any fine-tunig based on time-gaps, that vary very much based on PC and OperatingSytem and Grafic-Card and area you fly in.

If that really is a problem, then I come back to my suggestion: If TerraSync notices a timing-problem let FGFS "Pause" for a while and indicate on screen "pls wait - scenery downloading"! I Know: No engineer would like to do that - but I suggest that is much better then just crashing without notice! (And that leaves it up to the user if he wants a new PC for Xmas or accept those pauses! And Engineering has more time to find a solution.)
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Re: fg3.0rc1 memory usage

Postby adrian » Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:32 pm

I'll try to test this on my home machine which is 32 bit Debian, running 2.99 from August or September. I'll try to report back what kind of memory consumption I'm seeing with scenery 2.0, although I'm not expecting anything out of the ordinary. I'll test running from Raron to Paris. Take note, the more complicated the scenery and the larger the number of polys, the higher the memory required. Mountains are high on triangles, so are les champs avec des autoroutes.
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Re: fg3.0rc1 memory usage

Postby F-JJTH » Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:52 pm

Ok another test which take care to play with the LODPager (load/unload tile)

Using UFO, at 120 000 ft from LFML to LFPG (crossing most of the France)
Only "Terrain" folder is in the Scenery folder pointed for the test (no Objects, no Models)

Scenery Detailed = 1500
Scenery Rough = 9 000
Scenery Bare = 30 000

During the flight a took care to wait that all tiles on my way are loaded, arriving at LFPG I have memory load =
Scenery v1.0: 920 MB
Scenery v2.0: 4.9 GB


@Thorsten: are you sure that the terrain mesh isn't the issue ?

This test reveal clearly that a 32 bits user can't cross the France with the Scenery v2.0 but he can with Scenery v1.0


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Re: fg3.0rc1 memory usage

Postby adrian » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:26 pm

Ok, so here's two things: the loader will load terrain up to visibility-miles or LOD-bare, whichever comes first. The tile cache will store everything up to visibility-miles * 2, so at start you will not see much memory consumption, but as you fly around, the tile cache will accumulate tiles in memory, and the oldest ones, based on timestamp, will get sent for deletion only after the tile cache is full and needs to load a new tile.
I have bypassed this behaviour by dividing the tile cache by 2 and by making it a straight circle (actually a rectangle) around the aircraft. This way my memory consumption will stay as much as I keep visibility-miles (typically 50).
I tried flying around with 120 miles on Swiss 2.0, and it slowly went to 2.5 GB, and after that it shot up while I was messing with the UFO controls and Flightgear crashed. I'll try with a more reasonable view distance (50) and report back.
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Re: fg3.0rc1 memory usage

Postby Thorsten » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:35 pm

France custom ( by Elmaxo ) is based on scenery v1.0 (the whole archive is around 950Mo)
Scenery v2.0 require much more memory.


Admittedly I haven't tested that.

The France custom (Elmaxo) is based on CORINE and a more detailed elevation mesh though, it's significanly heavier than 1.0 world scenery France and it sure visually looks like the World Scenery 2.0 to me - so if 2.0 takes that much more memory, what do we use that memory for?

If that is a true concern I guess we need to react very fast - because right now we "suggest" everybody to download v.2.0 -- with TerraSync we even enforce it!


Already taken care of (I hope) - I proposed on the devel list to ship the new scenery via terrasync, the old scenery (including an old apt.dat) via server and to announce that clearly in the release statement, including a warning that the new scenery may cause framerate/memory issues and people experiencing those should first revert to the old scenery before filing problem reports. That proposal seems to have been accepted.

So the old scenery will be around for the time being, it just won't be developed further.
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Re: fg3.0rc1 memory usage

Postby adrian » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:52 pm

Test flight LSTA-LIPB with visibility-miles=40 and LOD distance bare=60000. Memory used by FG never went above 2.5 GB.
Some please do this test flight on recent git, I'm running a very custom patched version.
I chose Swiss mountains because they have lots of triangles and really push the memory.
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Re: fg3.0rc1 memory usage

Postby F-JJTH » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:59 pm

Thorsten wrote in Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:35 pm:what do we use that memory for?


I'm absolutely not an expert in scenery development, but maybe this viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21498 doesn't improve the situation.

For 3.0 release the solution would be to decrease our default "Bare" settings (preferences.xml) in order to be sure that we don't ask more than 2 GB of memory.
It seems that Bare = 4000 keep 1.8 GB of memory even after flying all over the Alps (mountains = lot of triangles)

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Re: fg3.0rc1 memory usage

Postby adrian » Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:01 pm

One more thing: if you do the test flight mentioned above, please don't rush it with the UFO. Pause for 30 seconds then resume, let all the tiles load, just like it would happen with a normal aircraft.
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Re: fg3.0rc1 memory usage

Postby F-JJTH » Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:50 pm

Thorsten wrote in Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:35 pm:what do we use that memory for?


When I said "France custom is based on scenery v1.0" I mean that France custom has been generated with the same Terragear version than scenery v1.0. In the meantime Terragear has been largely overhauled (thanks to the team !) so source code has been modified and also the .btg format has been modified. So even if France custom "looks like" scenery v2.0 the content of the files is mostly different.


@Adrian: I did LSTA <--> LIPB <--> LSTA <--> LIPB with UFO at reasonable speed in order to be sure that all tiles are loaded, Bare = 60 000 visibility ~40 000 m and at the end of my session I got 7.4 GB of memory used
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Re: fg3.0rc1 memory usage

Postby adrian » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:05 pm

Clement, that's weird. You should be getting twice the memory usage I'm seeing, i.e. around 5 GB since I have downsized the tile cache at half the normal. I can't explain the rest up to 7.4. Unless I did something else that I forgot about... must check the code tomorrow.
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