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3.0.0 on Win7

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3.0.0 on Win7

Postby mhab » Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:18 pm

Hello

I downloaded and installed 3.0.0 on Windows 7.
First try a complete failure it seems. fgrun only presents me with a description of commandline options ...
Doesn't even try to start FG
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Re: 3.0.0 on Win7

Postby Gijs » Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:30 pm

Hi,

Is that aafter pressing Run in the launcher? Could you copy the command line? (tick Show command line on the last page of FGRun) You've been around long enough know that I'd expect you to know that we need quite a bit more information for troubleshooting ;-)

Cheers,
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Re: 3.0.0 on Win7

Postby I-NEMO » Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:39 am

Hallo FG people,

I've downloaded FG 3.0.0 RC and I wish to report that Terrasync is not working properly, I presume.
My Config:

Intel i7-3770 8 cores
RAM 32 Gb
NVidia GTX 650 TI
Windows 7 Pro 64 bit
High-speed ADSL

Departing apt= LIME
The Scenery tiles are already present in the usual properly assigned Scenery dir (just one for Scenery, and one for Terrasync; LIME tiles and surroundings had been already downloaded with latest FG 3.1.0 Nightly Terrasyncing).
Terrasync dir is on top of the list [as number 1], then there is the Scenery dir [as number 2], and data/Scenery [as number3].

With Terrasync 'enabled' in FGRun 3.0.0, on the FG loading page I get 'Downloading Scenery', but at very low speed [130-170 Kb] (comparing to the same situation, but on FG 3.1.0 Nightly from Jenkins [400-600 Kb]).
Then - after about ten minutes downloading (!!) - FG goes on to next message: 'finalizing position' and 'loading scenery'...and it hangs there for ever.
The machine is actually doing something, as I can tell from core 5 which goes up to 85%...but nothing happens: FG is just hanged there.
It can be interrupted only if you disable Terrasync from within FG.

If you enable again Terrasync from within FG, it starts downloading tiles, but very, very slowly [30-40kb]. Much slower than on 2.12.1 or 3.1.0 Nightly (yesterday).
When 'disabling' Terrasync from FGRun, the model loads nicely, with proper apt scenery; and if you then 'enable' Terrasync from the Menu I get the same slow, slow speed.

Just for your info.
Took a couple of test flight, and the RC's overall result is actually very nice, and stabler than FG 3.1.0 Nightly.

Congratulations to all core-developers!

Regards,

I-NEMO
_____________________________________
_____________________________________
Latest Addition:

I've tried again to restart the whole identical process:

I had to interrupt it, since the 'Downloading Scenery' section was now running at an average speed of 20 (twenty!) Kb...I've even seen a '2 kb per sec!'...I gave up after 40 minutes: 121000 kb downloaded, 1 Object ...
Will test it again tomorrow...Regards, I-NEMO
Last edited by I-NEMO on Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 3.0.0 on Win7

Postby mhab » Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:28 am

Yeah I've been around long enough ...
and still frustrated what a toolbox FG still is

So lets start with fgrun:
1) I cannot mark the terrgear directory as it was possible before, still the parameter --terrasync-dir=1 is there, why ?
maybe because it was inherited from the FG 2.12 runs I had done up to now
2) It doesn't seem to care if I add aircraft directory ...
The model browser seems to not reflect new aircraft

Finally by resetting to Default and trying options 1 by 1 I found the one which breaks it:
--enable-game-mode
.. but no mention in the popup DOS what caused the failure ...

I then tried the Cessna 172 and with loaded scenery FG crashed in LOWI after a view meters,
sent several of the automatic dumps over http ....

Very,very little success

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Re: 3.0.0 on Win7

Postby Philosopher » Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:22 am

Hmmm... That is disappointing :(

--enable-game-mode was removed because it did nothing (or was unsupported, IIRC).

I use the command line, no FGRun, but terrasync works fine there (also in-game too, which is simply extraordinary :D).
Thanks,
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Re: 3.0.0 on Win7

Postby zakalawe » Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:50 am

I-NEMO wrote in Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:39 am:With Terrasync 'enabled' in FGRun 3.0.0, on the FG loading page I get 'Downloading Scenery', but at very low speed [130-170 Kb] (comparing to the same situation, but on FG 3.1.0 Nightly from Jenkins [400-600 Kb]).
Then - after about ten minutes downloading (!!) - FG goes on to next message: 'finalizing position' and 'loading scenery'...and it hangs there for ever.
The machine is actually doing something, as I can tell from core 5 which goes up to 85%...but nothing happens: FG is just hanged there.
It can be interrupted only if you disable Terrasync from within FG.

If you enable again Terrasync from within FG, it starts downloading tiles, but very, very slowly [30-40kb]. Much slower than on 2.12.1 or 3.1.0 Nightly (yesterday).


I'm not sure what might be happening here, but the code in 3.0 and the nightlies is 100% identical for terrasync - the speed differences you're observing are caused by something else, not a code change.

Depending on which TerraSync dir you select (or use the default), TerraSync may need to re-sync the scenery from scratch - the format has changed compared to 2.12 (but the same as 3.1), and the Models directory is unfortunately quite large (200MB to download). So if you're seeing download rates as low as 20 kbyte/sec, that will take a considerable amount of time to sync.
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Re: 3.0.0 on Win7

Postby zakalawe » Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:54 am

mhab wrote in Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:28 am:So lets start with fgrun:

Finally by resetting to Default and trying options 1 by 1 I found the one which breaks it:
--enable-game-mode
.. but no mention in the popup DOS what caused the failure ...

This really reflects the fact that FGRun has been rather un-maintained, and not kept in sync with core FG features. Recently it has received some attention, but it does really need a complete overhaul since FG itself is much smarter than when FGRun was created.

The medium-term goal is actually to make FGRun unnecessary for normal use, so it becomes an 'advanced settings' tool and normal users will do everything from FG itself. The only major things you can't do from inside FG yet are change aircraft, and enable Rembrandt, both of which I'm working on. Of course I hoped to finish this for 3.0 and ran out of time!

mhab wrote in Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:28 am:I then tried the Cessna 172 and with loaded scenery FG crashed in LOWI after a view meters,
sent several of the automatic dumps over http ....

Thanks for sending those, I will take a look!
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Re: 3.0.0 on Win7

Postby Mike-G » Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:09 pm

Hi
Downloaded 3.0 today
have run it for 3 hours now
only problem found so far was with the inbuilt FGcom
when activating this from the menu FG crashed not sure why
anyway as i was not about to use it anyway reloaded and fun without it

graphics are much more crisp and smooth
all other systems presented no apparent problems
Frame rates were down but as it has been stated it was expected
before i could run 45/60 its now 30/40 down to 20 in heavy scenery situations but still playable

my system
Asus G73J laptop
i7 1.6
ATI HD5870 1GB Vram
8 GB system Ram
win7 64 bit ( so run 64bit exe file )

will continue to run this over the next few weeks and see how it goes

Rgds
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Re: 3.0.0 on Win7

Postby Gijs » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:17 pm

mhab wrote in Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:28 am:Yeah I've been around long enough

Thanks for providing some info this time. This helps us debug bugs.

mhab wrote in Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:28 am:I cannot mark the terrgear directory as it was possible before, still the parameter --terrasync-dir=1 is there, why ?

You can set the TerraSync directory on the Advanced > General page.

It doesn't seem to care if I add aircraft directory ...

Works fine here. Just to make sure, your aircraft directory is a top level directory? That is, you have for example C:/FlightGear/Aircraft/ec135/ec135-set.xml and then set FG_AIRCRAFT to C:/FlightGear/Aircraft?

--enable-game-mode

Ah, we should remove that one. I never use fullscreen (I always maximize my window if I need full screen), so I didn't notice it was removed from fgfs.
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Re: 3.0.0 on Win7

Postby mhab » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:57 pm

Somewhere I was told that Intro Music was removed too ...
so --disable-intro-music is another candidate for removal from fgrun

EDIT: as there is --enable-fullscreen I never understood what "Game Mode" was supposed to do
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Re: 3.0.0 on Win7

Postby AndersG » Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:20 pm

For the sake of pointless accuracy: --enable-fullscreen resizes the FG window to cover the screen while --enable-game-mode (when it worked) tried to change the screen resolution to the size of the FG window. That was useful in the age of CRT monitors when 3d performance at desktop resolution was too poor and going fullscreen at a lower resolution helped.
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Re: 3.0.0 on Win7

Postby hvengel » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:29 pm

I thought that game mode removed the window borders. IE. when using FG maximized there are still window borders and using game mode removed those borders (made the area of the simulation slightly larger),
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Re: 3.0.0 on Win7

Postby zakalawe » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:25 am

hvengel wrote in Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:29 pm:I thought that game mode removed the window borders. IE. when using FG maximized there are still window borders and using game mode removed those borders (made the area of the simulation slightly larger),


This is a per-platform area - on X11 we need to supply some hints to get a border-less window I think. On Mac it 'just works' and Windows I think maximised windows also lose the border.

However, the 'game-mode' option really did nothing, which is why I removed it. If we add this feature it should be called 'fullscreen' or something, except I think that /also/ exists already, and I would need to check exactly what it does...
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Re: 3.0.0 on Win7

Postby curt » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:06 pm

game-mode originally was tied to the old 3dfx video cards. Back in those days you couldn't run opengl apps in a window (well you could but it was a horrible hack and slow.) Instead, these cards would flip to a full screen mode (at some possibly different resolution, maybe 640x480 or 800x600 if you paid the big bucks for the fancy card.) As gaming technology improved it's integration into the desktop gui, many cards/drivers still maintained this ability to flip into different full screen video modes and take over your entire display for the 'game'. But now, years later, it doesn't make much sense to carry this along in our code, and I don't think modern video hardware can work like this any more.

Oh man, more of those days are starting to come back to me as I write ... my first opengl card was a pass through ... it didn't normally do anything until you ran an opengl app. Then it would take over the video signal, set it's own video mode and run the app. There was a short cable that would run from your normal video output to the opengl card, and then you'd plug your monitor into the output of the opengl card. The good old days! :-) --enable-game-mode (back then) triggered the code that fired up the opengl card and told it to take over the video signal. This was how games and 3d graphics were done on PC a long time ago, and one of the reasons the built in FlightGear gui system was designed entirely in opengl ... because in game mode you didn't have access to the desktop gui or windows.

Currently on linux, fullscreen gives a full screen borderless window. There are some small complications with multi-headed systems and the gnome window manager, but osg has a work around for that.

I was playing around with running full screen across 2 displays on my linux system yesterday evening and it is quite nice. Actually really really nice, and nice enough to make me think about shopping for a better video card that can support a 3rd display. You don't realize how much that extra peripheral vision adds to the pleasure and realism of a flight simulation until you see it in action. Flying along the ragged bottom of a cloud layer is especially cool for some reason ... seeing those clouds approach and then pass beside you is a really nice effect.

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Re: 3.0.0 on Win7

Postby Johan G » Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:14 pm

Installed rc-1 today. It is as if FGRun doesn't pass any parameters to fgfs.exe. :(

Will try again after rebooting my computer in a moment.

As detailed computer specs as I can get is in my profile. No changes where made to the installation or the settings as far as I remember except that:

  • I have the the root directory at C:\Program Files\FlightGear\3.0.0-rc1
  • The TerraSync folder is at C:\Program Files\FlightGear\TerraSync
  • I moved the TerraSync folder to the top
  • I Selected the C172 (no aircraft was selected)
  • I selected KSFO (no airport was selected)
  • I deselected game mode
  • After the first unsuccessful run I changed the debug level to "bulk"

Command line:
Code: Select all
C:\Program Files\FlightGear\3.0.0-rc1\bin\Win32\fgfs.exe
  --fg-root=C:\Program Files\FlightGear\3.0.0-rc1\data
  --fg-scenery=C:\Program Files\FlightGear\TerraSync;C:\Program Files\FlightGear\3.0.0-rc1\data\Scenery;C:\Program Files\FlightGear\3.0.0-rc1\scenery
  --terrasync-dir=3
  --airport=E16
  --aircraft=c172p
  --control=joystick
  --disable-intro-music
  --enable-mouse-pointer
  --disable-random-objects
  --prop:/sim/rendering/random-vegetation=false
  --disable-specular-highlight
  --enable-ai-models
  --disable-ai-traffic
  --model-hz=40
  --disable-real-weather-fetch
  --prop:/sim/frame-rate-throttle-hz=20
  --fog-fastest
  --geometry=800x600
  --fov=90
  --timeofday=noon
  --disable-terrasync
  --callsign=SE-JG
  --multiplay=out,10,,5000
  --multiplay=in,10,Eee_PC,5000
  --disable-fgcom
  --log-level=bulk


fgfs.exe output:
Code: Select all
Usage: fgfs [ option ... ]

General Options:
   --help, -h                   Show the most relevant command line options
   --verbose, -v                Show all command line options when combined
                                with --help or -h
   --fg-root=path               Specify the root data path
   --fg-scenery=path            Specify the scenery path(s);
                                Defaults to $FG_ROOT/Scenery
   --fg-aircraft=path           Specify additional aircraft directory path(s)
   --language=code              Select the language for this session

Aircraft:
   --aircraft=name              Select an aircraft profile as defined by a top
                                level <name>-set.xml
   --show-aircraft              Print a list of the currently available
                                aircraft types

   --min-status={alpha,beta,early-production,production}
                                Allows you to define a minimum status level
                                (=development status) for all listed aircraft

Initial Position and Orientation:
   --airport=ID                 Specify starting position relative to an
                                airport
   --runway=rwy_no              Specify starting runway (must also specify an
                                airport)
   --carrier=[name|ID]          Specify starting position on an AI carrier

For a complete list of options use --help --verbose
Hit a key to continue...


fgfs.log (in "bulk" log level):
Code: Select all
general:3:..\..\..\flightgear\src\Main\main.cxx:355:CrashRpt enabled
general:3:..\..\..\flightgear\src\Main\main.cxx:385:FlightGear:  Version 3.0.0
general:3:..\..\..\flightgear\src\Main\main.cxx:386:Built with Microsoft Visual C++ version 1600
general:3:..\..\..\flightgear\src\Main\main.cxx:388:Jenkins number/ID 93:2014-01-23_11-12-43
general:5:..\..\..\flightgear\src\Main\options.cxx:2060:unknown option:disable-intro-music
input:3:..\..\..\flightgear\src\Main\options.cxx:2378:fg_root = C:\Program Files\FlightGear\3.0.0-rc1\data
input:3:..\..\..\flightgear\src\Main\fg_init.cxx:459:Reading global preferences
input:3:..\..\..\flightgear\src\Main\fg_init.cxx:461:Finished Reading global preferences
input:3:..\..\..\flightgear\src\Main\globals.cxx:681:Reading user settings from C:/Users/Johan G/AppData/Roaming/flightgear.org/autosave_3_0.xml
input:3:..\..\..\flightgear\src\Main\options.cxx:1922:aircraft = c172p
general:3:..\..\..\flightgear\src\Main\fg_init.cxx:242:Loading aircraft -set file from:C:/Program Files/FlightGear/3.0.0-rc1/data/Aircraft/c172p/c172p-set.xml
general:5:..\..\..\flightgear\src\Main\locale.cxx:185:No internationalization settings specified in preferences.xml
general:3:..\..\..\flightgear\src\Main\locale.cxx:216:Reading localized strings for 'en' from C:/Program Files/FlightGear/3.0.0-rc1/data/Translations/en/options.xml
io:3:..\..\..\flightgear\src\Main\globals.cxx:708:Saving user settings to C:/Users/Johan G/AppData/Roaming/flightgear.org/autosave_3_0.xml
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