Board index Other Forum

Editing posts

Questions about the forum itself, suggestions or issues with the forum software.

Re: Editing posts

Postby SkyWlf77 » Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:54 pm

stuart wrote:I think this boils down to a difference in opinion on the level of responsibility forumites should take on themselves{...}If we had heavier moderation, I think it highly likely that the quality of posting would drop, because we'd be treating people like children.


I think this is the precisely the case - a difference of opinion of necessary moderation levels. I wish I could point you to the forum that I think about when considering the level of moderation needed, but I can't - It was taken offline by the Admins after it devolved into a flame war fiasco that was unrecoverable without wiping the forums clean. We tried behind-the-scenes moderation and it went quite well for a few years (almost 4), but it slowly became more and more populated with argumentative people as our membership count increased. By the time we were ordered to make our presence as Mods very visible, it was too late. It was taking me and one of the other active mods about 8 hours per day minimum and we still weren't catching up - it went from one political discussion that went too far (similar to the topic referenced before in this thread) to a Mac vs. PC flame war (this was an Information Technology forum) to an all-out butt-chewing disaster that we couldn't control any longer. By the time we recommended that the forum be taken down, I was deleting or moderating over 250 posts per day (not including the ever-present spam) and I ended up banning over 40 people in the course of about 10 days. My other forums that have much stricter moderation and more visible moderation have run smoothly the entire time I've been part of them as the members know there is no toleration for crap posting.

stuart wrote:I agree that we need additional moderators. I've emailed Curt.


Awesome. Thank you. Not only will this alleviate some of the pressure on you, but I think it will benefit the entire community. Any thoughts on the color-coding of Mod's IDs for easier identification?

stuart wrote:I don't see any massive flame wars{...}


Have you read any of the topics about the New VA? The most recent one has devolved although I think it's finally been diffused for the time being...

I apologize for not thinking about hitting the "report button". I've never been a part of a forum that needed that since the moderators read every post in every topic in my other forums, so it's not really something that crosses my mind. I'll try to remember that in the future. By the way, can we report PM's as well if they are out-of-line?

stuart wrote:
SkyWlf77 wrote:The problem is whether or not any of this matters to the current Admin/Mods. From what I've seen, the current "in-charge crew" doesn't seem to either care or they don't want someone else "stepping on their turf".


If by the current "in-charge crew" you are referring to me, I take quite an exception to your comments. I spend as much time as I can spare moderating this forum. That includes keeping an eye on it at work (as I'm doing right now), which given that I manage a large software development team for a living is quite an imposition on my work time.


Well, it was more of a reference to all 3 of you than just you. This was based on the fact that this topic had been raised a couple years before and no modifications had been done regardless of the objections of the members here that additional moderators were needed. It also was based on the fact that curt and Kugelfang have almost zero interaction on this forum that is visible. The previous topic on this matter only solicited one response from Kugelfang and Curt hasn't seen it worth his time to comment on either of these topics. That leaves you to deal with all of this on your own which is extremely unfair to you.

stuart wrote:
SkyWlf77 wrote:Personally, I've sent two e-mail messages to Curt that have both gone ignored.


Just to check - you did send an email rather than a PM? Unfortunately Curt is very busy, particularly with the recent v2.0 release, so I suspect he hasn't had time to reply. I would suggest pinging him again now that v2.0 is out the door.


Yes, both were e-mails. One of them was only a couple of days after I joined this site (Jan 9, 2010). The other one was mid-February and was also an e-mail. After the second one, I gave up on him and contacted you recently instead (regard the new Subforum) and you're dealing with it :) The first e-mail I no longer consider to be valid due to recent developments here...

stuart wrote:
SkyWlf77 wrote:I've sent multiple messages to a Mod of this forum - the ones that received responses took 3 days to get back and I still have 2 out there that have not been responded to in the last 48 hours even though they have both been read. I know the Mods are busy, but that just leads to #1 above as that kind of timeframe is considered unacceptable by serious, experienced forumites (if I left any of my messages unanswered for 48 hours on the forums I Mod/Admin, I'd be replaced in a heartbeat unless the owners knew of an emergency situation).


Sorry, I disagree quite strongly with that statement. I don't consider either of your PMs as being urgent enough to require an immediate response. However, I'll respond to you after I've finished this.

Note that I'm not saying that your PMs aren't important. Quite the opposite - one of them really requires quite some thought before I can respond. They just aren't as urgent as other matters. For example, my wife and I moved house at the weekend, and I had a particularly long work-day yesterday.


Actually, this issue goes back to the difference of opinion regarding the activity level of moderators. I'm used to Mods being so visible that you have to be blind not to know who they are and rules being so visible that violation of them is grounds for a temporary ban. The other forums I'm on, it's rare to have to wait more than a couple of hours for a response and quite often I don't have to wait that long because I have them on Instant Messenger (and for a short while I used Skype until the spyware attached to it drove me away). So, you can somewhat understand why I considered exceeding 48 hours to be being ignored at the time. Obviously, I need to make some adjustments to my thought patterns when I'm here on this forum - it's just fairly difficult for me since I am logged into all of my forums all day long. I'll do my best.

MaverickAlex wrote:Stuart, i don't believe anyone is being disrespectful, and understandably with your house move and business commitments it's commendable you give time to moderate at all.

We have had these discussions about further moderators to assist in the forum administration, i think we need to give curt a little more of a nudge to either A) give you more admin access, or B) appoint someone else to assist you, as we said last time i don't recall the last time Kugelfang did any moderation.

We do appreciate ALL your efforts in ALL areas.


You are definitely correct here, Mav. I never intended anything I wrote to sound like I was being disrespectful. I fully understand the time required to do the job of a Mod and I know that Stuart has been cramming it into his busy schedule as best he can. I definitely appreciate the effort he puts into this. I only brought up the points I did as I think it is unfair to both Stuart and the Community to expect him to be able to handle it all on his own. I think there is a valid need for an additional Mod and, as evidenced in his response above, he agrees and has taken that step. I appreciate that as well.

-Jason

-Jason
SkyWlf77
 
Posts: 624
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:19 am
Location: Central Illinois
Callsign: SkyWlf77
Version: 2
OS: Windows 7 64-bit

Re: Editing posts

Postby stuart » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:22 pm

SkyWlf77 wrote:
stuart wrote:I agree that we need additional moderators. I've emailed Curt.

Awesome. Thank you. Not only will this alleviate some of the pressure on you, but I think it will benefit the entire community. Any thoughts on the color-coding of Mod's IDs for easier identification?


I haven't addressed colour coding.

SkyWlf77 wrote:
stuart wrote:I don't see any massive flame wars{...}


Have you read any of the topics about the New VA? The most recent one has devolved although I think it's finally been diffused for the time being...


I have now, though I only did so after my previous post ;)

However, I'd say that the forumites themselves diffused the situation, like the adults that they are.

SkyWlf77 wrote:I apologize for not thinking about hitting the "report button". I've never been a part of a forum that needed that since the moderators read every post in every topic in my other forums, so it's not really something that crosses my mind. I'll try to remember that in the future. By the way, can we report PM's as well if they are out-of-line?


I think the Report button is under-utilized. Each time I log onto the forum, the first thing I check are any new reports. For example, if you'd reported the VA topic, I would have looked it it earlier. It certainly helps having forumites themselves point out what they consider unacceptable.

Reporting PMs is fine as well. I'm not sure if there is a formal reporting mechanism though, so you can just PM me with the relevant details.

-Stuart
G-MWLX
User avatar
stuart
Moderator
 
Posts: 1629
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:56 am
Location: Edinburgh
Callsign: G-MWLX

Re: Editing posts

Postby MD-Terp » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:39 pm

In the original "we need a new mod" thread I was an ardent supporter of heavier moderation. Since that time I have come to see that the model favored here does seem to work fairly well, and to some extent I agree with stuart that heavy moderation involvement may only "poke the coals". That being said, I would still be in favor of at least one more moderator, if nothing else than to give stuart a little help with the few issues that do arise here from time to time.
Cheers,
-Rob.

"Retired" from FlightGear involvement as of July 2010.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8809
User avatar
MD-Terp
 
Posts: 2410
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:37 am
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
Callsign: N531MD, AVA0025

Re: Editing posts

Postby stuart » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:08 am

As you may see from the recent announcement, Gijs is now a moderator.

-Stuart
G-MWLX
User avatar
stuart
Moderator
 
Posts: 1629
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:56 am
Location: Edinburgh
Callsign: G-MWLX

Re: Editing posts

Postby SkyWlf77 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:13 am

Yes, I saw...Fantastic!

Thanks go to Gijs for taking on the job, stuart for listening to and responding to our concerns and questions and to curt for making it happen. I know that much discussion went into this and I'm sure that everyone involved will benefit from it.

-Jason
SkyWlf77
 
Posts: 624
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:19 am
Location: Central Illinois
Callsign: SkyWlf77
Version: 2
OS: Windows 7 64-bit

Previous

Return to Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests