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Re: Out of context quoting to mislead

Postby Hooray » Sun Sep 04, 2016 12:46 pm

Bomber wrote:bugman showed up with his cross posting from another forum..... which I believe is against forum rules.


It's called substantiating claims - it isn't "out of context" if it backs up a statement that is made, which is why it is so easy for people to follow bugman's line of reasoning: he tends to go the extra mile and puts all sorts of links into his postings that allow people to easily verify who said something, why it was said, in response to whom, and under what circumstances - from where I am standing, that's what makes all the difference: I don't need to believe what bugman is saying, I can simply follow the pointers/quotes he posts and then make up my own mind independently - aka, the power of quoting :lol:

We may not always appreciate being quoted, and we may consider certain quotes to be "out of context", but that's better left as an exercise to the reader, aka this community.

(in case you missed it, some would claim that I am a little familiar with quoting and with quoting in the FlightGear ecosystem in particular)

Anyway, in all seriousness, by inflating such incidents this much, you are empowering the very people you are disagreeing with - and I am saying that as someone who's own behavior is also considered highly controversial by some, some of whom even ended up deciding not to participate in the forum/wiki anymore in response to my involvement apparently.

Realistically, this is the worst thing that people can do to deal with others who they disagree with - if, let's say, Thorsten doesn't get along with me, and disagrees with my way of posting here, and contributing to the wiki, he'd be well-advised to stay around and keep an eye on me, than just hand over this place to someone who he strongly disagrees with, so that it goes even more haywire.

Equally, whenever you are inflating minor misconceptions like this, you are empowering people like bugman even more - because there really is no way that you can win this debate as long as you're using these tactics (and language), and as long as people like bugman are so eloquent when it comes to dealing with these accusations.

It's as simple as that ...
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Re: Out of context quoting to mislead

Postby Bomber » Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:46 pm

Wow and you accuse others of B/S.

So simply put folks, around here if you're being lied about or a person is deliberately attempting to mislead the community about you or a group, you shouldn't respond, you should just let it happen. Because you can't win...

So you admit there is a winning and losing situation going on here, with core members attempting to 'win' the hearts and minds of this community be it through the truth or lies.
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Re: Out of context quoting to mislead

Postby Bomber » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:00 pm

Hooray wrote in Sun Sep 04, 2016 12:46 pm:in case you missed it, some would claim that I am a little familiar with quoting and with quoting in the FlightGear ecosystem in particular


Oh I assure you I'm very familiar with your quoting from other sites forums to bash others or a groups opinion here on this forum...
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Re: Out of context quoting to mislead

Postby Octal450 » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:45 pm

@Hooray
That is what I thought at first, then I was realized it was wrong and retracted it.

I accepted that I made a mistake and apologized.
Last edited by Octal450 on Thu Feb 15, 2024 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Out of context quoting to mislead

Postby Alant » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:09 pm

Why can´t you guys (all of you) let this rest for a while. Rekindling an argument is not going to help anyone. Al it will do is cause further ill feeling.

Remember that this is the Internet, which is well known for folk not behaving the same towards each other as they would in real life. Exactly the same as when a pedestrian gets behind behind the wheel of a car.........

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Re: Out of context quoting to mislead

Postby Hooray » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:43 pm

I can definitely let this rest ... i.e. only read your posting, ignoring the other responses ;-)
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Re: Out of context quoting to mislead

Postby wlbragg » Mon Sep 05, 2016 1:02 am

I would like to get back to the crux of the original post also, because what I really don't understand is why it is considered so "out of context"?

I have to tell you that I had immediate suspicion when I saw Bomber posting, what appeared to be, these random topics. What is he up to? Is this a mind game of some sorts or is it a genuine quest for knowledge? After following a couple of them progress in a civil fashion, I gave the benefit of the doubt to Bomber. But the suspicion was certainly there from the start.
Then Bugman post a quote from Bomber which said what it said and raised the suspicion level in my mind back into the red.
You said what you said Bomber, what is "out of context? The possibility that the current discussion going on at the time was genuine?
If you want the benefit of doubt...
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Re: Out of context quoting to mislead

Postby Octal450 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:08 am

lol

I'm laughing at this...

Communism?
Monarchy?
Bulls**t?

Everyone is bias! Against innocents? The sense is not.
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Re: Out of context quoting to mislead

Postby Bomber » Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:15 am

They may seem random to you, but surely you should judge a topic or post on its content..

This 'mind games' concerns are you being paranoid and reflects your thought process not mine.

What is out of context is that
A) is was completely off topic within a civil and interesting conversation
B) it failed to show in what context I'd posted it, instead just posting a link.

The point I made and one you've confirmed is that in initially reading the quote, your alarm went into the red.

Now did you follow the link, did you read and understand the conversation I was responding to over on FGMembers ?

It was deliberately done to incite and destroy an interesting series of flight model design questions I have a mind to post. So how does FG benefit ?

You don't have to like me, frankly I'm not a great fan of you either.... but I don't view any of your posts with concerns of ulterior motives.

So you tell me.... what have I ever done to you personally to deserve such an attitude.
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Re: Out of context quoting to mislead

Postby wlbragg » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:30 am

I'll give you A. As far as B, following the link gave me the context. My suspicion was up from the very start. Reading what you posted on fgm only confirmed or enhanced it.
I never said one way or the other what my feelings for you are, only that I was suspect of your motivation based on the entirety of your prior actions. By actions I mean all your prior posts that I have read. Even though by my way of thinking based on my perception of your prior actions I had every reason to be sceptical, I still gave you benifit of doubt. Reading bugman's post changed nothing. It only confirmed I perhaps wasn't alone in my perception. Reading what you wrote only added to my doubt. If it walks, talks and acts like a duck.
As far a I am concerned, you yourself are responsible for you own persona. I don't know bugman any more or less than I do you, I can only judge each of your actions, and it doesn't have to be actions directed at me. Until your involvement in postings indicating your take on certain events of recent, the only perception I had of you were a couple posts you made responding to questions I or others had that were at best unclear or at worst condescending.

Edit:
You have also attempted to be helpful to me on occasion. I count that in my perception of you.
End Edit

All I have to go by is what you put out there. I never have been one to take someone I don't know word's for it. As a matter of fact, my judgment is still out on you even if it doesn't appear that way.
You posted this topic, You invited a response by posting it. i'm not convinced your correct in your assessment and I am concerned that you might have meant what you posted in fgm.
If I have it all wrong, I apologize.
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Re: Out of context quoting to mislead

Postby Bomber » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:44 am

So in my response to kl you see only the ulterior motive that you assign to my intentions

[quote
it0uchpods wrote:
I don't think my time on that forum will be much longer, I can see a ban coming my way...

KL-666 wrote:
This is the thing i find difficult to understand. Why is everyone waiting for someone else to decide for them, to decide to ban them. No, take decisions in your own hand. Decide yourself not to publish on a forum you do not like. Do not wait for someone else to decide that you can't.

Kind regards, Vincent

Bomber wrote:
I post there because every post I make advertises this place in my signature.... leaving is like letting them win and I want them to do the hard yards if winning is their objective.

If having a conversation, even to the point of agreeing to disagree about our hobby is their objective then there's no issue... but if they start deleting my posts for no reason other than they don't like the content... ie terragit well then I go flamefest and justifiably so..... Don't just allow them to delete posts without making a loud noise both there and here, or they win.[/quote]
Last edited by Bomber on Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Out of context quoting to mislead

Postby wlbragg » Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:20 am

No, that is not all I see. But it certainly doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling about your involvement here. It sounds like your at war with "them" and I may very well be one of them.
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Re: Out of context quoting to mislead

Postby Bomber » Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:39 pm

Oh I'm at war is it ?

When I'm being pre-judged as to the motive behind me starting various interesting and civil conversations over on the flight modeling forum.

I don't post to give you a warm and fuzzy feeling... especially when I'm posting on another forum..
It's bad enough that all my posts here are viewed with skepticism, the motives behind them pre-judged and with a heavy dose of 'reading between the lines'... But that people find it acceptable to attempt to censor my posts on another forum by cross posting only half of what I've written is deplorable.

Your supporting these actions says more about you than anything that I've ever posted
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Re: Out of context quoting to mislead

Postby Thorsten » Mon Sep 05, 2016 1:36 pm

When I'm being pre-judged as to the motive behind me starting various interesting and civil conversations over on the flight modeling forum.


You pretend that's all the history relevant for the pre-judging. But the actual fact of the matter is that we've had by now several people posting here who later stated elsewhere their true motive to be to keep arguments going etc - so unfortunately that's not as far fetched any more as we might all hope. And it's also true that you've been involved in some less than civil conversations. And 'torpedo them' is one of the more friendly expressions the other forum has used to describe some actions here.

So it's not that all starts with a clean history - you know the history as well as I do, and you might take it into account in what you say both here and elsewhere.
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Re: Out of context quoting to mislead

Postby Bomber » Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:15 pm

Thorsten wrote in Mon Sep 05, 2016 1:36 pm:
When I'm being pre-judged as to the motive behind me starting various interesting and civil conversations over on the flight modeling forum.


You pretend that's all the history relevant for the pre-judging. But the actual fact of the matter is that we've had by now several people posting here who later stated elsewhere their true motive to be to keep arguments going etc - so unfortunately that's not as far fetched any more as we might all hope. And it's also true that you've been involved in some less than civil conversations. And 'torpedo them' is one of the more friendly expressions the other forum has used to describe some actions here.

So it's not that all starts with a clean history - you know the history as well as I do, and you might take it into account in what you say both here and elsewhere.


Like you're not guilty of that !

The weird thing here is that people, you, Hooray, Curt etc, have suggested I change my posting style... SO when I make a concuss act of starting a series of interesting and civil conversations within the flight modeling forum, attempting to discus the pros and cons of various techniques of flight modelling, and doing so without naming names or focusing on any particular author so as not to show any disrespect to any one individual.. the actions to 'torpedo' these conversations are generally accepted as being warranted by both the author (bugman), the moderators (silence) and certain members of this community..

Blaming me for past posts doesn't give anyone the right to torpedo a current topic..... otherwise when will it end ?.
Last edited by Bomber on Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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