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No FGCom in OpenRadar

OpenRadar is a standalone radar screen which connects to the FlightGear multiplayer servers. It is currently being developed.

No FGCom in OpenRadar

Postby come_744 » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:20 pm

Hello,

[First message, I introduce myself in this §] I used to be a virtual ATC in the IVAO world but I had to stop because of personal reasons. Now I can do virtual ATC again but I do not want to go back into IVAO community, which I found sometimes uncompromising to beginners. Plus I am a FOSS lover and I have discovered FlightGear recently so I would like to join this community as an LFLL regular ATC. I need help to setup OpenRadar, then I'll be able to learn once more phraseology :lol: (I was often up to TWR and sometimes APP) and open a position regularly.

I followed this guide: https://wiki.flightgear.org/OpenRadarGuide and now I am stuck with FGCom. The notification sounds (new planes and METAR updates) work. When I restart FGCom with the "Restart" button on the right of the COMs, the channels become red. My settings are:

FGComMode = Auto: Use the internal fgcom
FgCom Server = fgcom.flightgear.org
FgComPorts = 16661

It seems in Windows that no mic is used (the icon is not displayed) even when using the PTT button (with FGFS the mic icon is displayed). I did not manage to test OpenRadar FGCom RX because I am not sure that FGFS FGCom TX works (actually I tested and could not hear what I transmitted from FGFS to OR but not sure on which side the problem is. Both FGFS and OR were on the same frequency.

Running OpenRadar 2015-03-16 on Windows 10

Any help appreciated :D
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Re: No FGCom in OpenRadar

Postby N385MB » Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:13 am

Salutations!

FGCom does not work because the server has been down for several months and likely will continue this way.

What then are the currently used communication methods? Currently, both viable options involve an open team-speak program called Mumble. The first is FGCom-Mumble by Benih. This connects your aircraft's VHF and HF radios to a running Mumble client with the FGCom-Mumble plugin so that only people with the same active frequency will hear you. It is not currently used by most ATC's because it uses a still experimental version of Mumble and requires the installation of OpenSSL and a FG plugin. In addition, all pilots and ATC's participating must have the installation figured out or else they cannot participate. Though it does not currently meet the desired level of simplicity, I think it will in the future thanks to the great work by Beni. Give it a try here: https://github.com/hbeni/fgcom-mumble
(If you want to support the developer): https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/BeniH/5

The second option and the one currently in widespread use is the FlightGear Mumble server. It has hundreds of ATC channels to work out of and is quite simple to use. The pilots can switch channels using their radios with a program called FGExtend. If they cannot install it for whatever reason, they may continue to use it and switch channels manually. Currently in development for the FG Mumble server are ACARS, CPDLC (maybe) and 2 comm radios.
The Mumble link is: radio-mumble.flightgear.fr port 64738
Here's FGExtend (though you won't need it as a controller): https://fshare.udtq.fr/dl/OELmGZwJYTJ5? ... KJ9XT6EAf8

I hope my response has been helpful to you :).
My passengers receive hazard pay... but at least I have fun.

Cheers,
Margot
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Re: No FGCom in OpenRadar

Postby benih » Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:38 am

Hi just wanted to add details to fgcom-mumble:
- Openssl is not needed on windows (its compiled in statically), and on linux it’s usually already installed; i don’t know for macos
- the experimental mumble is specifically mumble 1.4; the next version. It already went into feature-freeze, ie it is in the process of being released as stable.

I would highly appreciate atcs serving it!
And you can configure the plugin to also let the voices of pilots without plugin trough to you.
I would say, this is a good thing to do unless we have wide Adoption.

There is also:
- a wiki page: https://wiki.flightgear.org/FGCom-mumble
- avforum threat for questions and discussions: viewtopic.php?t=37644

Also, you might consider trying ATC-Pie: https://wiki.flightgear.org/ATC-pie
It’sa little more complex to Setup, but more powerful and still maintained.
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Re: No FGCom in OpenRadar

Postby benih » Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:39 am

Though it does not currently meet the desired level of simplicity, I think it will in the future thanks to the great work by Beni.

The main issue here is getting a compatible mumble client.
As I mentioned earlier, mumble needs 1.4 for the plugin to work (it's that mumble version that will first offer the needed plugin frameworks - fgcom-mumble is an early adopter and some sort of test case for the new plugin framework). Currently one can download compiled snapshots from the azure pipeline at the github project site of mumble.

Once Mumble 1.4 got released as stable, its just a matter of:
  • Once only
    • Download+install Mumble 1.4
    • Download+install the FGCom-mumble plugin (trough mumble itself, they offer an plugin installer)
    • Download+install the FGFS addon
  • each session
    • Join a Mumble 1.4 server and join a channel whose name starts with "fgcom-mumble"
    • Start FGFS and have radio fun

Mumble takes care of updating itself and also the plugin on new releases.
And the FGFS-Addon will show a window to inform of updates to the addon.


I really thing i need to subscribe to youtube or something, to make some install+usage tutorial videos once Mumble 1.4 is out. I think this will help alot.
Until then, I really tried hard to write good documentation covering every detail (see the readme in the github site, and also the fgfs wiki entry)
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Re: No FGCom in OpenRadar

Postby come_744 » Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:20 pm

Thanks for the replies!

    Why is the FGCom server down? What is needed to make it work?
    I'll take a look at ATC-pie to get native FGCom-mumble support
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Re: No FGCom in OpenRadar

Postby N385MB » Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:27 pm

Firstly, thanks Beni for the answers, as I had no idea that OpenSSL was not needed on Windows! Sorry about that. And I appreciate all the documentation you have included with it.

Secondly, as to the FGCom server being down, it is probably a matter of usage. The audio quality in FGCom was not very good so it was not used often. Of course, servers cost money, and if they aren't being used, well... not much use for them to stay up. The audio quality on Mumble is much better.
My passengers receive hazard pay... but at least I have fun.

Cheers,
Margot
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Re: No FGCom in OpenRadar

Postby come_744 » Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:38 pm

Thanks for the answer! So I guess a future goal would be to integrate FGCom-mumble natively into FGFS and the ATC clients?

I took a look at ATC-pie, it starts but is not working yet. I tried to follow the readme but I am stuck with PyAudio installation. I will follow the FG's wiki ATC-pie guide instead and hope that PyAudio is not required while using mumble.
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Re: No FGCom in OpenRadar

Postby benih » Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:48 pm

Why is the FGCom server down? What is needed to make it work?

The legacy FGCom is based on an outdated Asterisk server implementation. That usffered bitrot, from what I know, and is now very unstable/unoperable.
Exact reasons I don't know. However it lead me to develop FGCom-Mumble...
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Re: No FGCom in OpenRadar

Postby benih » Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:50 pm

With FGCom-Mumble you don't need integration of OpenRadar or ATC-Pie.
FGCom-Mumble ships the so-called "RadioGUI", a Java8 application that enables you to setup your location and radio stack.
You therefore you could also use Openradar, and fire up the RadioGUI and use that for radios comms.
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Re: No FGCom in OpenRadar

Postby come_744 » Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:12 pm

If I understand correctly, the FGCom-Mumble is a way to set the channel in Mumble from the active frequency and the current position in the application (FGFS for instance). As an ATC I think the frequency is always the same so I think I do not need this kind of bridge (maybe there are features I am not aware of?).

However I actually would appreciate to control Mumble from my ATC client because it is a really cool feature, but I have not managed to install FGCom-Mumble in Mumble because of:

    error 1: "two files for architecture", I extract to get only the good file, and then
    error2: "bad format, check API".

I have read in the release notes that these errors are expected but I have not managed to fix the second one. (using Mumble 1.4)

Well I have finally set up ATC-pie which seems really powerful (but somehow not stable with single player modes DEP and CTR). I have drafted two python scripts to extract each SID/STAR into a single background file (and without the ugly @nnns) to display only the data needed, but I have not really spent time as an APP/DEP ATC so I would not be able to tell if it is really useful :mrgreen:. Finally, I updated by hand (I lost my credentials to X-Plane.com, X-Plane 9.70 is quite old now!) the LFLL apt.dat because magnetic deviation decremented the name of LFLL runways some years ago and the name of the taxiways were missing. I am now able to (try to) manage virtual traffic with correct phraseology!
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Re: No FGCom in OpenRadar

Postby benih » Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:01 am

come_744 wrote in Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:12 pm:If I understand correctly, the FGCom-Mumble is a way to set the channel in Mumble from the active frequency and the current position in the application (FGFS for instance). As an ATC I think the frequency is always the same so I think I do not need this kind of bridge (maybe there are features I am not aware of?).

No, that is what FGExtend does.
FGCom-mumble simulares a world-wide continuous radio spectrum; and that needs all participants in the same channel.
As ATC you also need the fgcom-mumble plugin so you can talk to the pilots. By default the pilots can't hear other mumble-users that do not ave the plugin active (because the non-plugin-user does not send the needed data like frequency and location).


come_744 wrote in Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:12 pm:However I actually would appreciate to control Mumble from my ATC client because it is a really cool feature, but I have not managed to install FGCom-Mumble in Mumble because of [...] I have read in the release notes that these errors are expected but I have not managed to fix the second one. (using Mumble 1.4)

The current snapshot (6) from mumbles download page is too old. The devs meanwhile added a new plugin packaging mechanism which is not yet in that snapshot.
Try the latest snapshot from the azure pipeline: https://dev.azure.com/Mumble-VoIP/Mumbl ... ew=results (link only valid for some days)
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Re: No FGCom in OpenRadar

Postby come_744 » Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:55 pm

Thanks for the clarification about FGCom-Mumble! I have installed Mumble 1.5 with the link you sent in your previous message. Now the installation of FGCom-Mumble is successful, but each time I run Mumble at the startup I get a prompt to send an error report to Mumble teams and after it Mumble finally starts. I tried to use the native support of FGCom-Mumble in ATC-pie and then with the Java application shipped into the FGCom-Mumble release and with both of them I cannot get my echo on the echo test frequency. In ATC-pie I used the echo test tool and same result.

I am not sure about the startup process. I start Mumble and connect to radio-mumble.flightgear.fr then the ATC client, then I connect ATC-pie to FlightGear network and do the tests. Is it tho good way? Do I have to switch to a specific channel in Mumble?
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Re: No FGCom in OpenRadar

Postby come_744 » Fri Jul 16, 2021 2:29 pm

The startup issue is not from FGCom-Mumble because it happens even when it is removed. I have found that I had forgotten to enable after installation so now it seems to work on the test server fgcom.hallinger.org but on the official FlightGear server there is no fgcom-mumble channel. What server should I use?

Thanks a lot for the help and for FGCom-Mumble!
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Re: No FGCom in OpenRadar

Postby benih » Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:55 pm

come_744 wrote in Fri Jul 16, 2021 2:29 pm:it seems to work on the test server fgcom.hallinger.org but on the official FlightGear server there is no fgcom-mumble channel. What server should I use?

Thanks a lot for the help and for FGCom-Mumble!


That is working as expected:
- you need to connect to at least a 1.4 server. The „official“ server still runs 1.3
- you need to be in a channel whose name start with „fgcom-mumble“ for the plugin to get active.

The only option (known to me) is the fgcom.hallinger.org test server currently.

Btw the fgcom-mumble wiki page (link in my signature) holds a Troubleshooting section ;)
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Re: No FGCom in OpenRadar

Postby mickybadia » Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:21 pm

Please follow up in the relevant forum, but:
come_744 wrote in Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:12 pm:Well I have finally set up ATC-pie which seems really powerful (but somehow not stable with single player modes DEP and CTR).

What issues is this referring to?
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