Considerations for ATCs... discussion or recommendation..

[Lydiot]

So I just wanted to throw this out there for you to consider. Before you read on, realize that I'm relatively new to this which is both a good thing and a drawback (for me).



- Not all pilots have well functioning hardware/software. This results in glitches that sometimes have no clear, easy or quick solutions.

- Not all pilots know how to pilot their planes (or software) succefully even if they work without glitches. They may need guidance and/or practice to get to that point.

- Not all pilots know how to follow specific instructions because of terminology etc, despite being able to pilot their planes and have working hardware/software.



The reason I'm bringing this up is in some threads I've read I've seen the comment that there is simply often an imbalance between ATCs and pilots in some areas. At KFSO for example you can have a million newbies and one poor ATC that gives up after 20 minutes, whereas at other locations you can have three ATCs in close viscinity and only one plane. Well, if the goal is to get more pilots flying better then we don't want to turn the prospective players away from the community.

Now, there are different ways to talk to people. There's a difference between asking "Can I help you?" and "Do you have any idea what you are doing?". One is helpful and the other is confrontational. And so I want to simply call on ATCs to be sensitive to the above since I think that is true. And to give a personal example I'll just recount a recent flight in my next post.

[Lydiot]

I started FG, and on my computer it sometimes gives me the option to spawn at a gate and sometimes not. It's a bug. In addition I sometimes choose a gate and end up on a runway anyway. In this case I ended up on a runway that isn't in use supposedly. I didn't know it at the time however but decided to use pushback to get off the runway and onto a connecting path to the taxying strip before connecting to multiplayer.

I connected to multiplayer and saw a plane in front of me. That plane was clearly a player as the distance in the pilot list showed so. I contacted ATC, which was unclear because the ATC in question had THREE different instances running and responded not with the airport name but a different name. Fine, whatever. I request a runway and am given one to taxi to. I tell ATC that there's a plane in front of me to which the reply is to turn off AI, which was already off. So I mention that and get no answer. So I ignore that user and the plane of course goes away, after which I start to taxi.

All of a sudden I'm being told to stop despite being far from the runway planes are landing on. I turn my throttle down but before I can stop I hit a little antenna right in the taxi way (bug) which sends me flying off the taxi path backwards into a field. This is what then transpires between me and ATC [paraphrased]:


ATC: I TOLD YOU TO STOP!!! (all caps)
Me: Sorry, there was an antenna in my way which threw me off. And I was far from rwy.
ATC: I'M NOT GOING TO ARGUE WITH YOU!!!


I select "select airport" and respawn on the non-active runway. ATC complains that I keep spawning on that runway.


Me: I told you I spawned AT the runway last time, not ON.
ATC: YOU'RE ON THE RUNWAY NOW, WHO IS STUPID, YOU OR ME???
Me: The runway isn't even in use, you said so. What's the problem.
ATC: ALL AIRMEN IGNORE PLAYER XXX

So at this point I've had enough unnecessary abuse for one session and simply take off from the "illegal" runway to a nice ATC who's actually helpful. About 5 minutes later the all-caps begin again with another player, which just so happens to be the "AI" plane that was in front of me that I already brought to the ATCs attention. That conversation too ends with the command to "ignore". I believe a total of at least 4 or 5 planes were ignored using all caps in that short time I was there.


Now, ask yourself if you're always right, and if that way of talking to people will grow the community or turn people off....

[hamzaalloush]

i believe all ATC members should be cool and join the ride, they are part of the flightgear community not above. you want control airspace but at the same time you cannot enforce rules on anybody. just have patience. one time i was instructed to fly to a fix but the gps software was glitched at the time causing me to head to the wrong fix, instead of instructing me after that the ATC just totally ignored me. i understand that the ATC expects the pilot to give his work cut out for him so he can only focus on controlling the airspace. but most of the time people are up there having fun (or, like in my case was facing an issue with the software), as simple as that.

want to be controlled airspace only and not the open sort, my advice is to head over to the EGLL triangle(even though haven't been there yet) but heard great things. meanwhile at KSFO there are lots who are really of the understanding sort

[Johan G]

The parking positions/gates are unfortunately only available for a handful of airports. They have to be added by hand which takes some time, and with about 20,000 airports to chose from and only a few people adding them... let's just say we (the community at large) are working on it.

Starting offline and moving off the runway before connecting to the servers is a very good idea, which probably more people should consider (though not everyone knows it can be done). Too bad it did not seem to work this time.

The antenna on the taxiway definitively is a bug, but can probably be corrected through the scenery model database though finding exactly which object position to update can be a bit tricky.

As for the all-caps(?!) ATC: Just as anyone can be a pilot, anyone can be an ATC (which you seem to understand), so sometimes they can be a bit, shall we say just as inpatient as incompetent. Some of them, even the better ones out there, loose their temper sometimes for some reason or another. Do not take it too personally. One of the ways to deal with it is to start at another airport.

[Lydiot]

Good thoughts all around.

For the record, I didn't take it personally at all, I'm too old for that. I just thought that this may be something for ATCs to consider moving forward. I've read some pretty terrible conversations on the chat, and we just need to all make an effort to not push good people away from this great simulator.

[jomo]

Well seems to me the "bad guy" was me and the "good guy" was "Oasis 1" (and/or "Vanilla" and/or "Lydiot"). So let me also show my side of the happening;

First of all: I try to teach pilots AND ATC's by filming what actually is happening at EDDF -- in order to improve the understanding and cooperation between all the people participating in theses Multiplayer events. Pilots (and ATCs) are often concentrating too much just onto what is happening inside their little cockpit - they forget that their is a big world full of other people arround them! e.g. They do not always read or understand the MPchat conversions of the fellow multiplayers - and many do not use FGCom - so they do not know what actually is happening around them! Although FGFS tries to help by providing tools for that like: Pilotlist, MPchat, MPmap, MAP, tower-view, etc.

Surely I wonder why someone posts such accusations without reviewing first what actually happened - allthough he was asked several times to review those films the next day! So let us review that incident together now - and AFTER that pls comment on: May that be an acceptable way to operate and teach? Or should I stop that work? For sure it is quite some effort to sit there 4 times a week for 4h ATCing plus 2h to prepare and upload those films!
That film in question is (together with many more) on http://www.emmerich-j.de/ --> "EDDF- Triangle Movies" (or direct http://www.emmerich-j.de/EDDF/Films/201 ... 27-106.ogv).

See on the film, starting on time axes 43:15:
18:12:46 GMT: Vanilla appears on rw 36 and gets advise not to start on rw and a hint where to find explanations. He moves offside the rw. He also gets help to test his FGCom.
18:33:00 GMT Vanilla leaves
18:33:27 GMT: GVA0205 pops up on rw 36 and moves offside onto the taxiway
18:44:54 GMT: Oasis appears where Vanilla did disappear before. (How did he do that? He claims his FGFS can only place him on rw!?! I assume he just switched ID! Vanilla to Oasis)
18:52:35 GMT: Advise to StandBy and wait for incoming traffic
18:54:10 GMT: request to start from rw 36 denied due to law (problems with crossing traffic 07/25)
18:56:00 GMT: Oasis claims a plane in front of him. (That is the GVA0205, see above) (Why is he that angry because of that? That guy did just do what Oasis is doing all the time!)
18:59:57 GMT: Cleared to taxi
19:04:23 GMT: Hold Short - traffic on final
19:05:24 GMT: STOP !!!!!!!!!!! (Anybody has an idea how to emphasis better in MPchat? Many pilots do overlook standard MPchat advises! And is there any problem if ATC tells somebody to STOP? Why arguing all the time?
BTW: I do not find that claimed all Capitals "I told you to stop" nor do I find a "sorry" -- maybe it really makes sense to look into the movie prior to define good/bad!
19:08:37 GMT: Oasis restarts on rw 36 again! ATC asks him to see on movie what was happening
19:10:42 GMT: Oasis still on rw - ATC warns him
19:11:20 GMT: Oasis starts arguing that he could stay on rw36 because I told him "no starts from 36"! Does he know that every runway has 2 ends/starts? (e.g. 36/18, 07/25 etc.
19:11:20 GMT: Oasis gets neglected - ATC just does not have the time to argue all the time.
---> Oasis takes off from 36 !!!

Well now - that is what it was!
I am aware of many newbie-pilots being frustrated when they visit a busy "Controlled AP" like EDDF! Even I would not start my first car- driving in the most busy city! And why should anybody need to do that? In Europe there are many lonsome ATC's who are eagerly waiting for customers (see MPmap!) - and they surely are prepared to support newbies with all their time. Why not please them and give them some work? You surely would do a good work for FGFS when giving thoses ATCs some training-time!

And once more a point I always want to stress:
There definitely is no reason at all to start up on a runway (if you do not want to bother others!)! See e.g. http://www.emmerich-j.de/HB/EN/B3_Intro ... TocId74423 or for German http://wiki.flightgear.org/De/HB_Einwei ... rtposition. There are even several free manuals available -- see e.g. http://www.emmerich-j.de/HB/EN/Start.html or in German http://wiki.flightgear.org/De/HB_Das_Fl ... r-Handbuch. And of course: Watch the movies - I am sure many will be suprised when they see and hear how much is happening arround them!

To the end: Is that kind of ATCing an acceptable approach for people who want to learn?
(And remember: It is not a public school! Nobody needs to attend! There are thousands of airports inside FGFS - without a jomo! )

[ludomotico]

IMHO and after watching the video, there were some mistakes both from the ATC and Oasis. All of us can get some learning from this story.

- Something funny: Oasis complains because some other user spawned at the runway... just as he did
- ATC clears Oasis to holding point RWY 07C (18:59:57). To get there, Oasis will have to cross RWY 07R, in use! <---- This is a mistake from the ATC, in my opinion.
- ATC informs Oasis there is traffic on final (19:04:23)... but the ATC didn't say the RWY <--- Again, a mistake from the ATC. Oasis still believes 07C is the RWY in use, not 07R.

The situation makes no sense: Oasis is taxiing to the holding point of RWY 07C, but he will have to cross 07R and 07C to get there knowing there is incoming traffic. It is obvious the ATC made a mistake, and Oasis must have realized by now something is wrong.

- Then, the ATC realizes Oasis is about to cross 07R and commands STOP! This is a direct order to Oasis not to be discussed. This is exactly the task of an ATC! I completely agree with the ATC here. Oasis made two mistakes: not realizing the ATC was wrong and requesting new instructions (this happens also in real life, is not a big deal), and discussing a direct order from the ATC.
- Oasis spawns again at runway 36 "because he is too lazy to follow procedures" and starts a discussion about grammar. In the real world, this is enough to be charged with several fines: not following procedures, wrong use of the radio. He was nearly right some minutes ago, he is completely wrong by now.

Those videos are a wonderful learning tool! I didn't know they existed. Please, keep making them!

[jomo]

Thank you for the flowers - it helps a lot reading something nice - thanks.

BUT allthough I cannot hide doing errors (of course very seldom and only under big big stress caused by lots of newbies) my own videos prove that I make a lot of errors. But to my knowledge that one was no error:

The situation makes no sense: Oasis is taxiing to the holding point of RWY 07C, but he will have to cross 07R and 07C to get there knowing there is incoming traffic. It is obvious the ATC made a mistake, and Oasis must have realized by now something is wrong.

Do you have any litratur or so that supports your definition? I was sure you can do that without problems - because everybody has to stop bevor crossing ANY runway whatever asignement he has from whomever - that is why there are big red signs near them.

If you watched the whole movie you will have noticed, that all incomming planes landed on 07R and thus needed to cross 07C - and they all waited for a "clear to cross" - without any "order" to do so!

Pls tell me if you have proove for that being wrong - because then we would have to change our procedures accordingly!

[Johan G]

*Sigh* video pretty much says it all, though there is a few points to consider:

• Is there differences between EDDF parking positions in the old and new TerraSync scenery and the ones jomo uses? (I do not think there is but I am not sure. If there is some extras apart from the existing TerraSync groundnet, this might be a problem.)
• Hmm, what about that antenna?
• Ignore and get ignored (this mainly concerns Oasis 1)
• One could always spawn and ask to be ignored if one absolutely want to play around at a controlled airport where the most are trying to follow procedure, but I think that might be against the idea of using MP.

As for asking for permission before crossing a runway (active or not) I would probably at least mention it even if I was previously given clearance to do so, and look both way before crossing after a clearance anyway (but that's me).

[KL-666]

Hi All,

I have often flown into EDDF. After initial contact i get a vor to fly to, and be there at 4000 feet. Then i have nothing to do for 10-15 minutes, just let the plane descend and watch distance and height, so i am sure i'll be at 4000 ft at the designated vor.

In that time i listen to and read the atc comms. And boy, some times the workload for ATC is horrendous. This film is quite a calm day compared to some others. The workload is not caused by too many planes on the airfield, but by people needing much attention. Some simply do not communicate at all (maybe did not open chat box), some can not handle their plane and go in a completely different directions than given by atc, some start discussions, and others are there plainly to troll. If i sometimes hear the abusive words sent to ATC, i often wonder how he still stays so calm.

All this endangers the ability to serve the normal traffic, so i very much understand a policy of relatively quick neglecting. Personally i find that Jomo has too much patience with explaining things, causing new vectors being given too late to incoming planes. The anouncement of a neglected plane to other pilots is maybe not so very keenly chosen (baby), but the message is clear and usefull: If there is a plane on the runway you land on, do not go around unnecessary, but just land through it.

I think it is important for everyone to understand that ATC is often busy with others, so you can not be served immediately. If you see not much happening on the chat box and do not use fgcom, there can still be a lot of activity on fgcom. So a calm chat box should not make you think that you can start consuming precious ATC time with a lot of talking (typing).

For novice pilots that want to fly a controlled airport i would suggest:

- Start training at an uncontrolled airport, so you are sure you can promptly execute instructions from atc. If atc says heading 300 and descend to 3000, you should not be heading 250 and climbing. Correcting you will take too much time from ATC.

- Try to understand procedures in communication. If you use those procedures you will be quicker in the air. Else the ATC has to ask you all sorts of things, which takes longer. A good way to learn is by parking on an airport (at a gate) and just listen to communications. Select a plane to view and see the interaction between communications and the movements of the plane.

- The basics are: Ask permission for every new movement (i.e. ask for taxi permission after pushback, do not just drive away). Another one is: do not argue. I sometimes get a "hold short" thinking: Why? that other plane is miles away! But i just do it, not starting a discussion taking away precious ATC time from others.

- If you feel reasonably confident, do your first atc flight from an airport with a lonely atc. He will have all the time to help you out.

And for people that do not want procedures, they can go to thousands of other uncontrolled airports. If i want to spawn on the runway and fly away immediately, i do not go to a controlled airport, or i turn off multiplayer temporarily.

So all in all i think everyone can co-exist peacefully on the mpservers. You have the best of two worlds in flightgear: If you want ATC, you can have it. If you want to fly freely, it can be done everywhere else.

Have fun, Vincent

[ludomotico]

Do you have any litratur or so that supports your definition? I was sure you can do that without problems - because everybody has to stop bevor crossing ANY runway whatever asignement he has from whomever - that is why there are big red signs near them.

This is true, a holding line cannot be crossed without clearance by the ATC. But, why risk misunderstandings by not mentioning the holding points in the middle of the route to the destination?

In addition: http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publicat ... c0307.html Check section 3.7.2

It is open to discussion, of course, but I'd say the correct phraseology (and the safest, as the current example shows) would have been:

"Oasis, proceed to holding point L21 via Y. Hold short of RWY 07R" (or whatever name is that holding point. Sierra?)

[jomo]

This is true, a holding line cannot be crossed without clearance by the ATC. But, why risk misunderstandings by not mentioning the holding points in the middle of the route to the destination?

Thanks for the FAA-procedure - good to know: Nobody is allowed to cross - even if there is no explicit "Hold Short" issued!
But I also see your point made and revisited my procedures. Please comment on my plan:

According to that FAA procedures I would have had to TYPE on keyboard (FAA does not consider typing I guess!):
1) "Oasis, taxi to holding point rw07C via Y L L21. Hold short of RWY 07R APR and 07C APR"
2) then "Oasis clear to cross 07R APR, proceed to HP 07C APR"
3) then "Oasis clear to cross 07C APR, proceed to HP 07C via Y L L21"

One of the problems is: You need 3 lengthy advises - because you cannot foresee what is happening at those runways when the pilot arrives there. See e.g. the time between "18:59:57 Oasis cleared to taxi" - and when I issued "19:04:23 GMT: Hold Short" - in that time there were 2 approaches to that runway! And consider the workload for a single ATC analyzing and typing all that in an acceptable time-frame! Even if FGCom is used that is a terrific challenge for an ATC acting as RADAR, APR, DEP, TWR, and GND at the same time - on a busy Airport! I am sure FAA would not even allow such an operation at all!

So I did/do choose the safer possibility: Train/enforce all pilots to never never never cross any runway without a unique "Clear to cross" for each unique crossing! If you watch that movies more often you will notice that "jomoATC" becomes real harsh if a pilot does not hold by himself (needed or not!) - and I always get a reply "sorry" - and can be pretty sure he/she will never again forget it! In addition I try to issue a warning "Hold short" when traffic is cleared to land and/or start on that rw. I believe that to be the only possibility, if you do not want to enforce a "pilot license" (like VATSIM and FAA) and thus an enforced education (for pilots and ATCs)! (Not to talk about the then needed increase of manpower!)

Thanks for forcing me to reconsider my doing.
Could you accept my procedure as a possible/acceptable solution/compromise for FGFS?

[ludomotico]

Oh, you don't need me to accept anything!

Considering the lack of human resources to run the different ATS, your solution sounds like the best to me!

[Lydiot]

I'm going to break this up into a short answer and a longer one. You can choose either for consideration, rebuttal or whatever.

Short version:

FG ain't real life. You WILL have people coming to your airport that fall into the categories I described in my very first post. It's going to happen. It's going to happen repeatedly because these people simply don't know who you are, what the airport is about when you're running it etc. So the question is how do you talk to these people, and do you want them to participate in FG at all?

If you approach them with a very factual, real language that they can't comprehend, and end your interaction with all caps IGNORE THIS USER that sounds like a very unpleasant person YELLING AT YOU. I'm not saying you are unpleasant in real life, I'm just saying it looks very hard and confrontational. It's entirely possible that this way of talking to people turn them away from the community forever.

What I'm proposing for consideration is adjusting your tone according to what type of pilot you're talking to. If you sense that this is a newbie, have patience, skip the technical lingo for a second, and make them feel like this is something they'd like to do better. Your approach makes people feel incompetent, belittled and unwanted. I've seen some conversations and abuse some ATCs suffer, and I understand that sometimes you encounter 'bad people', but some people just need guidence - not a beating.

That was my point. And quite frankly I think you have comletely and utterly either misunderstood or not even attempted to understand it. The very fact that this thread gets immediately bogged down in technicalities proves my point I think.

Next post has the - if possible - longer version...

[Lydiot]

Long version;

I wonder why someone posts such accusations without reviewing first what actually happened - allthough he was asked several times to review those films the next day!

1. You're missing the point. I'm not questioning all your decisions, I'm questioning your way of talking to people who clearly know less than you.

2. Watch what video? Why? You essentially just say "watch the video" without explaining that the video is about what happened as we were playing. I had no idea what the video was.

So let us review that incident together now - and AFTER that pls comment on: May that be an acceptable way to operate and teach? Or should I stop that work? For sure it is quite some effort to sit there 4 times a week for 4h ATCing plus 2h to prepare and upload those films!

3. I'm going to answer your post in order of things I think warrant an answer. And the comment at this point is that you're taking this extremely personally. I did not point the finger at you or use your name out of respect, so that you could digest this and if you wanted to answer in general terms. If you had continued to discuss this generally I would have never mentioned your name. But you're also being purely defensive. Like I said in what I thought was a fairly diplomatic post; perhaps you could consider the larger point I made and perhaps there are different ways for you to communicate with other non-professional-pilot humans than the way you currently are AND still do a great job being a great ATC!?

Me saying that you're not infallible is not an insult. I am saying that nobody is infallible and I accept and acknowledge that I too make errors as a pilot in this fictional world.

See on the film, starting on time axes 43:15:
18:12:46 GMT: Vanilla appears on rw 36 and gets advise not to start on rw and a hint where to find explanations. He moves offside the rw. He also gets help to test his FGCom.
18:33:00 GMT Vanilla leaves
18:33:27 GMT: GVA0205 pops up on rw 36 and moves offside onto the taxiway
18:44:54 GMT: Oasis appears where Vanilla did disappear before. (How did he do that? He claims his FGFS can only place him on rw!?! I assume he just switched ID! Vanilla to Oasis)

4. If you are going to go through this in detail, technical detail at that, then please have the courtesy of reading my post and understanding what I say. I clearly stated that I spawned on runway 36, went off the runway, and THEN connected to multiplayer. There are two points you should take away from that:

a) I made an effort to NOT mess up your ATCing or anyone's flying, and
b) I had no idea that another plane would pop up ahead of me

18:56:00 GMT: Oasis claims a plane in front of him. (That is the GVA0205, see above) (Why is he that angry because of that? That guy did just do what Oasis is doing all the time!)

5. You are just missing the point completely here. I do find it irritating when players sit on runways or taxiways and then go to the bathroom, get on the phone, poke their genitalia with a salad-fork or whatever. Yes, that irritates me. It's inconsiderate. But I'm not complaining to you about it. I'm not even complaining to GVA. All I'm asking for is a rwy for takeoff and for that plane to move. Clearly I can't go anywhere with him in front of me.

Now, your response to me is, literally "Oasis 1: switch off AI-traffic"

Why would you ask me to do that in that interaction? The only reason seems to me that you think that I'm looking at an AI aircraft. That's why I tell you it's a player, not AI. And another player chimes in to further explain to you that another player is blocking me. And this guy had been sitting there for over 20 minutes at this point (although I didn't know that at the time).

19:05:24 GMT: STOP !!!!!!!!!!! (Anybody has an idea how to emphasis better in MPchat? Many pilots do overlook standard MPchat advises! And is there any problem if ATC tells somebody to STOP? Why arguing all the time?
BTW: I do not find that claimed all Capitals "I told you to stop" nor do I find a "sorry" -- maybe it really makes sense to look into the movie prior to define good/bad!

6. Correct, the second line of yours wasn't in all caps, and I stated specifically that I was paraphrasing the interaction since I didn't have a recording of it. The larger point - to reiterate - is the impression given to less experience players, even complete newbies. Look at this:

"STOP!!!!!!! I do not discuss with you -- no time for that"

This is perceived by many as very harsh language. I know you don't agree or care, I'm simply pointing it out for everyone's consideration.

19:08:37 GMT: Oasis restarts on rw 36 again! ATC asks him to see on movie what was happening

7. Like I said before, if you want to get technical about it, don't imply things that aren't correct. I did not start ON a rw before as far as you're concerned, I started next to it. I did that because I actually care about you and other players. You said the runway wasn't used, so I just started at the same place and was going to taxi off it again BUT, unfortunately, MP was still connected and as far as you and all other players could see I ended up ON the runway this time. That was NOT intended. As I said in my first post - sometimes the software does stuff you're not aware of until AFTER you've encountered it. Now I know. Now you know. Now everybody who reads this knows.

And that leaves hopefully hundreds of newbies to make exactly the same unintentional mistake I did. The only question is how you will respond to it.

19:10:42 GMT: Oasis still on rw - ATC warns him

8. Skipping past the part where you ask if I'm stupid, using "???" and "!!!!!!!!!" Also skipping past the part where you say "If you are not going to follow advise as given -- pls go somewhere else".

What advise did I not attempt to follow? I spawned on the runway the first time because that's where the software put me on my computer - BUT - out of respect for you I taxied off before connecting.

I asked you for directions,
I asked you to address the plane (which you didn't do because you thought it was AI),
I taxied when you told me,
I was in the process of stopping when you told me,

I made an actual effort to follow your instructions. You understand what the perception is here?

19:11:20 GMT: Oasis starts arguing that he could stay on rw36 because I told him "no starts from 36"! Does he know that every runway has 2 ends/starts? (e.g. 36/18, 07/25 etc.

9. This is another great opportunity for you to learn something:

IF I either didn't know OR FORGOT that runways have two directions, AND that one could be active and the other not, what is the best approach? Is it telling me this, or is it:

"YOU HAVE BEEN NEGLECTED" all caps? What do you think jomo?

All caps on the internet when saying the above is essentially saying F-YOU, AND DON'T COME BACK A-HOLE. That's the way it comes off.

I feel the need to repeat this:

a) I FORGOT that runways have two directions, one possibly being active while the other isn't
b) MP was on when I respawned, otherwise I would have ended up on the taxiway, out of the way from any possible traffic (which was still the case btw)

19:11:20 GMT: Oasis gets neglected - ATC just does not have the time to argue all the time.
---> Oasis takes off from 36 !!!

10. More like:
You don't have the energy to explain things calmly and in a manner people can comprehend, and
Me taking off from runway 36 because at this point I've been neglected anyway so who gives a crap... right? If you actually cared about me taking off from rwy 36 at that point then you wouldn't have neglected me, correct?

I am aware of many newbie-pilots being frustrated when they visit a busy "Controlled AP" like EDDF! Even I would not start my first car- driving in the most busy city! And why should anybody need to do that? In Europe there are many lonsome ATC's who are eagerly waiting for customers (see MPmap!) - and they surely are prepared to support newbies with all their time. Why not please them and give them some work? You surely would do a good work for FGFS when giving thoses ATCs some training-time!

You're missing the point - repeatedly: Some people won't know that, and they're faced with your confrontational way of expressing yourself.

And once more a point I always want to stress:
There definitely is no reason at all to start up on a runway (if you do not want to bother others!)!

You ignore what I wrote in my very first post: Sometimes the damn software doesn't place me at a gate. It's just that simple. Perhaps you never fly in FG, perhaps it's just easier for you to ignore, but I can tell you with 100% honesty and 100% certainty that I've selected gates and ended up on runways on several occasions. And in THIS case, the second time I spawned, MP was still activated which I was unaware of and that put me on the runway instead of at the runway as far as the MP-universe could see. UNINTENDED.

And again, you're talking to someone who actually cares and actually makes an effort, but you seem to make no distinction between such a person and a troll.

To the end: Is that kind of ATCing an acceptable approach for people who want to learn?

For people like you, apparently yes. For people like me, it seems, no.

(And remember: It is not a public school! Nobody needs to attend! There are thousands of airports inside FGFS - without a jomo! )

Not only is it not a public school, it isn't even real life. So I'll spread the word then, shall I?