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Are radio buttons available?  Topic is solved

Canvas is FlightGear's new fully scriptable 2D drawing system that will allow you to easily create new instruments, HUDs and even GUI dialogs and custom GUI widgets, without having to write C++ code and without having to rebuild FlightGear.

Re: Are radio buttons available?

Postby Octal450 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:21 am

I meant - I made never a dialog in Canvas, but I made tons of other things in Canvas.

Yeah, and I bet that took Thorsten ALOT of hard work. Which isn't need for every simple dialog.

And yes, for me maybe not so hard, but for someone with no knowledge of Canvas or Property management it will be MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more hard than PUI.

Plus, even if you get those elements, you have to do tons of work to setup the dialog and make it efficient. NASAL IS SLOW AND INEFFICIENT by most uses I found. Most developers don't know how to optimize code properly in it, neither did I until recent year or so. Still working to convert all my stuff.

I don't know why everyone shits on PUI. It has a few pitfalls, but does a fine job. There is nothing wrong with doing a PUI dialog.

Kind Regards,
Josh
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Re: Are radio buttons available?

Postby Thorsten » Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:06 am

Yeah, and I bet that took Thorsten ALOT of hard work.


Well, he had to learn a few things in the beginning. Like 'if the sky is the limit and not PUI, what dialog would I want?' What widgets would such a dialog need? What general frame can be re-used, what has to be dialog specific? What is a good way to organize the widgets?

Once that was done, it actually works quite nicely - I select a design for the dialog, measure some positions with gimp from the raster image part, include the widgets I need,... For a simple dialog, it takes a bit longer to do this in canvas (50% longer perhaps) - for a complicated dialog where one button affects what other buttons do it is a lot faster in canvas because such dialogs are very awkward to to in PUI.

Usually the end result is visually more pleasing, has seamless integration with the avionics where needed and is not limited by what PUI happens to offer.

In actual lines, the canvas version of a dialog usually beats the PUI definition of an equivalent dialog because including a widget usually is just a one-liner and configuring it another one-liner.

Granted, if you can't code Nasal xml and PUI seem easier, but if you actually want something intuitive which really integrates well with your systems/avionics simulation, canvas beats PUI flat out, and the 50% time overhead to create a pleasant design are IMO well spent.

Some examples below:

Rendezvous planner:

Image

(kinda hard to get the plot section in PUI...)

Trajectory display:

Image

(it's an example for a really complex dialog - actually more akin to a glass cockpit instrument - impossible to do this in PUI)

Customized propellant dialog showing also tank locations and details like temperature and pressure:

Image

DPS screens popped out

Image

(the twist being that the in-cockpit version of these displays is navigated via pushbuttons, but the popped out version acts like a touchscreen)

In-cockpit cue cards being popped out to canvas:

Image


The DPS keypad in canvas incarnation:

Image


It's quite easy to create pop-out versions of whole panels as the OMS propellant flow dialog illustrates

Image

Temperature distribution

Image

(rather intuitive to see what temperature belongs to where...)

The view manager:

Image

(again, the background picture of the flightdeck immediately gives you an intuitive sense of what view is located where which is impossible to achieve in PUI)

Eileen, the virtual co-pilot:

Image

(let's say the picture just adds to the atmosphere of the situation while not being crucial for function)
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Re: Are radio buttons available?

Postby wlbragg » Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:53 am

Again, Thorsten not only beat me to it but was, as usual, much more effective and eloquent in explaining the positive aspects.

I had summed up my thoughts but I got into a political discussion with one of my sons and forgot to push "post". So here is my feeble attempt to summarize my take on it.

I don't know why everyone shits on PUI. It has a few pitfalls, but does a fine job. There is nothing wrong with doing a PUI dialog.


I'm not "shitting" on PUI, I agree, it does an adequate job. I just have a graphic artist background and you can do more with canvas, in that regards. You can do thing graphically that you can't do with PUI. Look at the way you change the "basic" look of the menu system when you do something as simple as changing the background color. Why, because you think it is ascetically more pleasing. I think PUI is the equivalence of a black and white pencil drawing where canvas can be an oil painting.

Yet I am still using PUI as well for all my menus. So I'm not practicing what I am preaching.
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Re: Are radio buttons available?

Postby Thorsten » Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:58 am

not mentioning the fact that nasal as HORRIBLY SLOW property I/O


Yeah, but PUI is a horrible drag on the renderer - which is why people want to kick it for years. Canvas is conceptually much superior. Performance-wise I believe PUI is much worse.

- Nobody is gonna use Canvas dialogs of they remain this complex
- There barely any canvas in the UI now


Canvas has a specific edge in aircraft dialogs, because aircraft displays likely are in canvas, so you get seamless integration with avionics for free. The fact that there's no canvas dialog in the UI is because James doesn't want any because it would 'de-motivate him to pursue a Qt approach' - so far three different approaches for a complete canvas UI have been shot down for that reason.

Nobody is gonne use Nasal because it is so complex - ah wait - plenty of people actually do. Pretty much every serious aircraft developer can do Nasal. Except when it's about dialogs, then he forgets everything he ever learned about coding apparently :D

Anyway - there's plenty of existing dialog examples (see the gallery above), there's the widget set to create them, but... here's the downside: It ain't working like PUI or Qt in offering you radio-buttons or drop-down lists (or the typical types of widgets) - it offers you much more flexible elements like the image-stack (an indexed array of images which are selected by index - useful to create a 2d switch, or a talkback, or a pushbutton, or a docking area for a drag'n'drop setup for a loadout, or whatever else you can imagine...)
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Re: Are radio buttons available?

Postby Octal450 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:20 pm

The problem here is that neither of you are really listening to what I saying. You are all PRETENDING that i am saying "nobody should use canvas/nasal" - this is the most bullshit thing i ever heard! I was telling for years the advantages of canvas and such, and you are saying me this? I am laugh. If nobody listens, why I bother to respond?

- Yes of course you make such beautiful things - maybe for an advanced programmer like you and me it is not much more difficult to make a canvas dialog as a PUI one, but I am talking from the point of a newcomer. It is a much more complex system - that is much more power - and thus more complexity. If he is already making a PUI dialog for something simple, not like your beautiful displays. Why it MUST be in Canvas? Why not he can start learning what he is comfortable and move on onto more complex things later? We were all beginners once too.

Also - I have not found PUI dialogs opening to drop FPS alot, but most Canvas dialogs do (I've even tried yours, by the way, and the default Equipment Canvas Map). But that can be optimized via update notifications and stuff.

Anyways here you can see I do have an idea what I talk about, here are just a few of the Canvas display units I have made (popped out in this case)
Image
Image
Hah - I just realized I forgot to name the Airbus ones from "Canvas Dialog" to something useful... I'll have to fix that soon.

Nobody is gonne use Nasal because it is so complex

I NEVER SAID THAT! You fabricated that totally yourself.
And yes I do use Nasal for lots of stuff, but also lots is done in JSBsim.

What I said was for simple dialogs that don't need fancy graphics, etc, nobody will use a complex canvas dialog if PUI can do the same job. If they are more advanced and want to make a more fancy dialog, then they can. But most people? Go look around and see how canvas dialogs you see in planes that aren't Display Units. You will find that over 95% opt to use PUI.

I plan to adopt Canvas Dialogs at some point when I figure out how to make nice graphics (or I find someone who can) - as I said, I am worse artist as a monkey without hands. But for now, the PUI ones get the job done for everything I need except the DU pop-outs which, I did via Canvas instead for obvious reasons. But for me, I rather make a quick dialog to do the job, then spend hours on the systems and details, then poke around at a dialog for hours :mrgreen: Maybe by V1.0? But again - a new developer who isn't as experienced I am suggesting him to start what he is comfortable with first. What problem have you with that?

(offtopic - I am actually interested if you could point me towards your touchscreen example - I'd like to implement this for the MCDU pop-out in Canvas, so that I can take an image of the MCDU and when the user click the button, the action occurs instead of using a "canvas button")

Kind Regards,
Josh

(PS: Mods should probably split this off?)
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Re: Are radio buttons available?

Postby Thorsten » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:04 pm

You are all PRETENDING that i am saying "nobody should use canvas/nasal"


Not really, no. You're saying you aren't using canvas for dialogs because PUI is much simpler and superior in performance.

I'm saying that's not true - PUI is simple for you (as it was for me) because you're used to thinking in a certain way, but if you take the one-time investment of learning a different pattern, canvas for dialogs will be just as simple.

And I'm saying that I find it weird that the core group wants to get rid of PUI by almost whatever cost because of its abysmal performance, yet you choose just that very point where canvas is superior to defend PUI :mrgreen:

I NEVER SAID THAT! You fabricated that totally yourself.


Of course you didn't - because you know it to be wrong. But it is the logical continuation of your argument on why canvas dialogs are so horribly complex and nobody uses them - which is also wrong for the same reason. :D

Also - I have not found PUI dialogs opening to drop FPS alot, but most Canvas dialogs do


Come on - most dialogs have a property I/O of less than 20 items which is a non-issue even if done maximally naive (the numbers were a non-issue even ten years ago on ancient hardware). If you have 500+ operations per frame in addition to whatever else is happening, then it starts being noticeable - but not before (AW uses much more than 20 items regularly...)

So unless the dialog is a very involved plot, it's an academic question either way. :D

Go look around and see how canvas dialogs you see in planes that aren't Display Units. You will find that over 95% opt to use PUI.


Sure - 2 reasons:

1) force of habit
2) people are not aware that there's nice widget set available

So the point of Wayne's and my reply here is to 2a) make people aware of the widget set and 1a) suggest a few good reasons to break with old habits and try something new - because suddenly dialogs can be nice.

But again - a new developer who isn't as experienced I am suggesting him to start what he is comfortable with first. What problem have you with that?


Would you suggest to a new programmer to learn Pascal (do people even know that language any more?), or would you perhaps suggest C++ even if it is more complex to pick up? I'd suggest C++ - because Pascal doesn't have any kind of future (although it is Turing complete, simple and does get the job done).

Same here - if the slate is clean - as an aircraft developer you likely need Nasal, and for most aircraft you're going to need canvas - so you can skip legacy PUI from the start and apply your canvas-fu to dialogs as well.

I am actually interested if you could point me towards your touchscreen example


Look into Aircraft/SpaceShuttle/Nasal/canvas/canvas_dialogs.nas - it simply uses the clickspot widget.

Code: Select all
var cdlg_mdu_clone = {
   
   clickspots: [],

   init: func (index) {

      me.index = index;

      if (index == 0) {me.string = "CDR1";}
      else if (index == 1) {me.string = "CDR2";}
      else if (index == 2) {me.string = "CRT1";}
      else if (index == 3) {me.string = "MFD1";}

      var window = canvas.Window.new([512,512],"dialog").set("title", me.string);

      var canvas_clone = SpaceShuttle.MDU_array[index].PFD._canvas;
      window.setCanvas(canvas_clone);

      #me.root = canvas_clone.createGroup();

      me.cs_button1 = cdlg_clickspot.new(70, 495,25,15, 0, "rect");
      append(me.clickspots, me.cs_button1);

      me.cs_button2 = cdlg_clickspot.new(145, 495,25,15, 0, "rect");
      append(me.clickspots, me.cs_button2);

      me.cs_button3 = cdlg_clickspot.new(220, 495,25,15, 0, "rect");
      append(me.clickspots, me.cs_button3);

      me.cs_button4 = cdlg_clickspot.new(295, 495,25,15, 0, "rect");
      append(me.clickspots, me.cs_button4);

      me.cs_button5 = cdlg_clickspot.new(370, 495,25,15, 0, "rect");
      append(me.clickspots, me.cs_button5);

      me.cs_button6 = cdlg_clickspot.new(450, 495,25,15, 0, "rect");
      append(me.clickspots, me.cs_button6);

      canvas_clone.addEventListener("click", func(e) {
      me.check_clickspots(e.clientX, e.clientY, "click");
        });



   },

   check_clickspots: func (click_x, click_y, event) {


      var flag = 0;         
      for (var i =0; i< size(me.clickspots); i=i+1)
         {

         flag = me.clickspots[i].check_event(click_x, click_y);
         if (flag == 1) {break;}
         
         }
         if (flag == 1)
            {
            print ("Click event for spot ", i);

            me.clickspot_events(i+1, event);
            }

   },

   clickspot_events: func (system, event) {

      if (event == "click")
         {
         
         setprop("/sim/model/shuttle/controls/PFD/button-pressed"~(me.index+1), system);
      settimer ( func {
         setprop("/sim/model/shuttle/controls/PFD/button-pressed"~(me.index+1), 0);
         }, 0.5);

         }      
   },


};
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Re: Are radio buttons available?

Postby wlbragg » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:11 pm

I'm hearing what your saying and don't disagree with much of it.

The only reason I injected my thoughts into this thread was because the OP was asking questions about "how to canvas" and got a PUI option. I wanted to make it clear that canvas is still an option and that there are thing that you can do with it that you can't do with PUI.

For all I know this is the "newcomer" that makes something so extraordinary using canvas that it suddenly becomes the go to tool for GUI.

And ditto to Thorsten's post which popped up while I was composing this.

I type slow and really think about what I am wanting to say. :lol:
Last edited by wlbragg on Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are radio buttons available?

Postby Octal450 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:41 pm

Thanks for the touch screen example. Will look into that.

Not really, no. You're saying you aren't using canvas for dialogs because PUI is much simpler and superior in performance.

No - I said I am not using because I don't want to bother spending a long time making a simple little basic dialog. I brought up the performance issues separately.

I'm saying that's not true - PUI is simple for you (as it was for me) because you're used to thinking in a certain way, but if you take the one-time investment of learning a different pattern, canvas for dialogs will be just as simple.

By the way, your dialogs are very nice looking -- I suggest then that you begin designing replacements for the PUI dialogs we have now in FG, perhaps that will convince Core that is finally time (after 5 years) to switch over to Canvas? (and then, while you're at it, some generic examples so people who aren't so fluent in Canvas can catch up quickly)

My canvas skills consist of making display units, that's about it. I haven't figured out dialogs despite all the wiki reading I did - either I am to much stupid, or the examples aren't clear enough. So I stopped trying and went back to focusing on systems. The PUI dialogs worked fine for what I needed at the time. Now I am beginning to look into it again.

Why should OP erase all his work and learn canvas if he already has the hang of what he is doing now?
If someone decides to learn to make PUI dialogs (which I remind you, are the default being used by 90% of FG's default dialogs) - are they all wrong? Come on now!

Of course you didn't - because you know it to be wrong. But it is the logical continuation of your argument on why canvas dialogs are so horribly complex and nobody uses them - which is also wrong for the same reason. :D

No, that's a silly conclusion. Read what I write, don't try to figure out what I am thinking. Nasal is widely used. Canvas dialogs is not.

Come on - most dialogs have a property I/O of less than 20 items which is a non-issue even if done maximally naive (the numbers were a non-issue even ten years ago on ancient hardware). If you have 500+ operations per frame in addition to whatever else is happening, then it starts being noticeable - but not before (AW uses much more than 20 items regularly...)

Its not the propertyI/O, its the drawing. I haven't seen any "simple" and "basic" dialogs in a while using Canvas, so I guess its an unfair comparison. Point taken.

Sure - 2 reasons:

1) force of habit
2) people are not aware that there's nice widget set available

So the point of Wayne's and my reply here is to 2a) make people aware of the widget set and 1a) suggest a few good reasons to break with old habits and try something new - because suddenly dialogs can be nice.

Ehh - I used them because I can whip up an options dialog in 5 minutes without needing to learn anything new. You already MUST know XML to make FG aircraft so its simple. I imagine other devs made that choice too. And lastly, what is this "widget" this word means small gadget or mechanical device. I have no idea what you by widget.

Would you suggest to a new programmer to learn Pascal (do people even know that language any more?), or would you perhaps suggest C++ even if it is more complex to pick up? I'd suggest C++ - because Pascal doesn't have any kind of future (although it is Turing complete, simple and does get the job done).

That's a bit of a mis-statement. Would you teach a C++ developer first about things such as object orientated, arrays, and stuff? Or start with a simple hello world to get them familiar? PUI only needs you to know XML which you need to know anyways.

Same here - if the slate is clean - as an aircraft developer you likely need Nasal, and for most aircraft you're going to need canvas - so you can skip legacy PUI from the start and apply your canvas-fu to dialogs as well.

Which is ALL USELESS unless you know XML so you can make a -set and fdm. So you already know XML.

Here is the big thing you guys are missing: I am not arguing that Canvas dialogs are wrong - I am simply arguing that for a basic simple dialog like he is making there is no need to switch to Canvas. When I pointed out what he was using was PUI not Canvas, suddenly people think I am saying "Canvas is bad".

Also - one consistent annoyance I've had here on FG. I am not allowed to have an opinion. If my opinion doesn't match, it is WRONG.

@Wayne,
OP was asking questions about "how to canvas" and got a PUI option.

Wrong. OP thought he was using Canvas, but was actually PUI. So his question was actually about PUI not Canvas. I mentioned that it was ok for him to continue on PUI because Canvas is not being used so commonly yet, and then you and Thorsten come in full speed with the whole "Canvas is the future" "he should be using Canvas".

At this point I think I'm just gonna stop answering others' questions, anytime I do, someone comes in and says otherwise anyways. I don't know - many people seem to like my aircraft so my must be doing something right.
So I'm out - someone else can help him if he has further questions.

Kind Regards,
Josh
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Re: Are radio buttons available?

Postby Thorsten » Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:38 pm

I suggest then that you begin designing replacements for the PUI dialogs we have now in FG, perhaps that will convince Core that is finally time (after 5 years) to switch over to Canvas?


Well, I would have a while ago - but then again James really likes Qt, and I don't have the nerve to get into long arguments for yet another thing, I have quite enough hate-postings and mail as it is for not doing ALS like a couple of people want it to be for a while.

I haven't figured out dialogs despite all the wiki reading I did - either I am to much stupid, or the examples aren't clear enough.


It's not overly well documented - took me a bit to figure out how to catch mouse-actions on the canvas, but now the wrappers are basically there.

Why should OP erase all his work and learn canvas if he already has the hang of what he is doing now?


Wrong question - he should not.

Thread topics sometimes change to more general questions while the discussion is on - that's what happened here. If the purpose is to do one small dialog, do whatever you like. If the question is more generally - what skill should an aircraft developer acquire - yeah, learn canvas rather than PUI.

Nasal is widely used. Canvas dialogs is not.


That's a fact, but what do we conclude from that? Is it because canvas dialogs are ugly, or inferior to PUI - or is it because many people simply aren't aware of the option and have no examples to work from?

If it's the latter - posting such examples makes sense.

I used them because I can whip up an options dialog in 5 minutes without needing to learn anything new.


Let's say in the particular case of a list of checkboxes canvas dialogs are at a disadvantage, yes.

And lastly, what is this "widget" this word means small gadget or mechanical device.


It's a word for the elements of a dialog - checkboxes, radio buttons, buttons, dropdown-lists, text boxes etc. are all 'widgets'

Would you teach a C++ developer first about things such as object orientated, arrays, and stuff? Or start with a simple hello world to get them familiar?


Yes, actually if I'll ever get someone for a week who wants an introduction in coding, I'll first teach him how to think properly to design an algorithm and then how to translate that abstract concept into actual code. It would be the best way to learn - all else requires to unlearn bad habits.

PUI only needs you to know XML which you need to know anyways.


Oh so very wrong - how to change the text on a button in PUI runtime? How to populate a dropdown list in a PUI dialog runtime? For practically any problem beyond a list of checkboxes, you actually need to have a design idea in mind - and the PUI technology makes that very awkward. xml teaches you how to set parameters for existing design, not how to design stuff properly.

suddenly people think I am saying "Canvas is bad".


To be fair, you did comment on the performance of canvas vs. PUI and on the fact that there'd be no ready to use canvas structure - which draw me into correcting these statements specifically.


one consistent annoyance I've had here on FG. I am not allowed to have an opinion.


You're entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts. The cost of property I/O for example is a measurable quantity, we can test this on various systems and compare across architectures - we know how severe it is and when it matters because we have assembled the data. So you can't have an opinion about that which differs.

Whether canvas is a good thing to learn or not is a matter of judgement - there you can have an opinion.

If my opinion doesn't match, it is WRONG.


Have you been following the forum lately? :D I got my usual share of abuse for pointing out to abassign that he must have some local config issue since no one else can reproduce what he's been posting.

So what makes you think you're getting special treatment?

I don't know - many people seem to like my aircraft so my must be doing something right.


Doesn't mean you can't occasionally be wrong. I've done lots of work in different areas of FG, and still now and then someone points something out to me which I've missed. Nothing bad about this.
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Re: Are radio buttons available?

Postby wlbragg » Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:59 pm

OP thought he was using Canvas, but was actually PUI.


While that turned out to be the end results, he was confused and actually was talking about both.

reading about a radio button Canvas widget but can't find any explicit documentation.

and
For example, README.gui says:


and then you replied to Johan who supplied him with a PUI example source in which you replied

You realize, johan, that dialog is PUI not canvas..


So you must have thought he was also referring to canvas.

After it was revealed the conversation was actually about both I wanted to make sure he knew there were both options since he clearly was talking about "canvas widgets" at the start and I didn't want him steered away from canvas if that was his first inclination. But I agree with you providing him with alternatives and why those alternatives might be a better choice. That is something new contributors should know.
I didn't agree with some of you opinions about the two options and stated my opinion as well.

I don't ever want you to think I presume to know better than you about anything, you are surely way more experienced in canvas then me by now. I still am barely getting my feet wet. But that doesn't mean I don't understand what it does and how easy or difficult it is to use. I am a programmer from way back, so I don't think any of this stuff is difficult.

I also would feel really bad if anything I said would cause you to change your willingness to help someone or provide your opinion or experiences. So please don't take it that way. I just differ somewhat in opinion on what I think we should be using. Even that statement isn't really true as you said you were expressing the merits of canvas a long time ago and you felt like no one was listening. So no hard feelings here at all and please continue providing your assistance and opinions if you so choose. It's OK with me if you don't agree and we don't have to in order to be effective in helping others.

I actually think this was a worthwhile discussion and help shed some light on the subject.
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Re: Are radio buttons available?

Postby Octal450 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:06 pm

what skill should an aircraft developer acquire - yeah, learn canvas rather than PUI.

Which wasn't the point of the thread. I should point out that you don't learn PUI. If you know XML, you already know how to do PUI for the most part. Maybe 5 mins to get familiar with the terms.

That's a fact, but what do we conclude from that? Is it because canvas dialogs are ugly, or inferior to PUI - or is it because many people simply aren't aware of the option and have no examples to work from?

Let's say in the particular case of a list of checkboxes canvas dialogs are at a disadvantage, yes.

(I answer both quotes in once)
Nope - I stated the uglyness of the DEFAULT apperance is ugly, and I don't have graphics skills :wink: Its likely because they are far more to complex than PUI for a simple dialog, that most people use. Not many dialogs I've seen are very complex. For complex dialogs yeah of course use Canvas - but I can't think of reasons to have complex dialogs - except for aircraft control panels/displays (like you and I are)

It's a word for the elements of a dialog - checkboxes, radio buttons, buttons, dropdown-lists, text boxes etc. are all 'widgets'

ok, that makes it make more sense then.

Oh so very wrong - how to change the text on a button in PUI runtime? How to populate a dropdown list in a PUI dialog runtime? For practically any problem beyond a list of checkboxes, you actually need to have a design idea in mind - and the PUI technology makes that very awkward. xml teaches you how to set parameters for existing design, not how to design stuff properly.

Uhh - I've done the button thing with live text before. For the drop down, yes that can't be done easily.

To be fair, you did comment on the performance of canvas vs. PUI and on the fact that there'd be no ready to use canvas structure - which draw me into correcting these statements specifically.

No, I love Canvas. Performance could be better, and examples/documentation, and perhaps an easy way to add elements like buttons would be required before it comes as easy as PUI :wink: I'm not against Canvas at all.

You're entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts.

See again you aren't listening. Why do I even bother?

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While that turned out to be the end results, he was confused and actually was talking about both.

Wrong. He thought he was talking about Canvas, but actually not. Johan posted talking about PUI, and I pointed out that - I actually had a hunch he was talking about PUI from his OP post too.

I'm getting sick of this discussion. Nobody listens anyways. shrug

Kind Regards,
Josh
Waste of time. Goodbye forever.
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Re: Are radio buttons available?

Postby wlbragg » Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:57 pm

reading about a radio button Canvas widget


You can't presume to know what he was talking about. He didn't even know what he was talking about. He mentioned "radio button Canvas widget" that is canvas and that relates to canvas GUI's.
Your probably right in coming to the conclusion he should stick with PUI and are not wrong in suggesting that. But I think you are wrong in implying canvas is too difficult for new developers and you need to learn PUI and XML first. As far as performance, I defer to others as I wouldn't know.

I'm getting sick of this discussion. Nobody listens anyways. shrug


Don't confuse listening with disagreeing. I heard every word. I do agree that the discussion is getting to the point of fruitless and there is little benefit in continuing it. :)
Kansas(2-27-15)/Ohio/Midwest scenery development.
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Re: Are radio buttons available?

Postby Octal450 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:05 pm

You can't presume to know what he was talking about. He didn't even know what he was talking about.

Yes I can, because in the vary next 2 posts he made it was obvious he meant PUI the whole time.

Also when totally mis-understands - they clearly aren't listening. Nothing to do with difference of opinion.

Kind Regards,
Josh
Waste of time. Goodbye forever.
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Re: Are radio buttons available?

Postby Thorsten » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:22 am

but I can't think of reasons to have complex dialogs


Oh, plenty of fighter jets could benefit from a drag'n'drop to populate the hardpoints with weaponry, configuration dialogs for various equipment would benefit from showing you what that selected equipment actually is (I'm thinking of Helicopters with additional baskets, lights,...), tank schematics like for the Concorde would be much clearer when it's visually clear where each tank is and how large it is so that the action to trim forward/backward would be obvious,...

The Extra 500 has a very nice fault dialog in canvas and a nice flight planning dialog.


There's plenty of reasons once you think of it - you could get tools (like the Shuttle cue cards) in-sim which would have to remain outside otherwise.

and I don't have graphics skills


You need less than you think - most dialog background artwork you see above is made of cropped FG screenshots - something tells me that's within your abilities :D
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Re: Are radio buttons available?

Postby Octal450 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:35 am

Thorsten wrote in Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:22 am:Oh, plenty of fighter jets could benefit from a drag'n'drop to populate the hardpoints with weaponry, configuration dialogs for various equipment would benefit from showing you what that selected equipment actually is (I'm thinking of Helicopters with additional baskets, lights,...), tank schematics like for the Concorde would be much clearer when it's visually clear where each tank is and how large it is so that the action to trim forward/backward would be obvious,...

...

There's plenty of reasons once you think of it - you could get tools (like the Shuttle cue cards) in-sim which would have to remain outside otherwise.


That's mostly a luxury not a requirement, but I get what you mean.

Anyways, I'll probably have questions regarding the touch screen widget so I'll get back to you should that happen.

Kind Regards,
Josh
Waste of time. Goodbye forever.
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