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Developing a Canvas Cockpit for the CRJ700

Canvas is FlightGear's new fully scriptable 2D drawing system that will allow you to easily create new instruments, HUDs and even GUI dialogs and custom GUI widgets, without having to write C++ code and without having to rebuild FlightGear.

Re: Developing a Canvas Cockpit for the CRJ700

Postby legoboyvdlp » Wed Jul 08, 2015 2:43 am

Hmmm... That would be much easier, I must say. But what would happen if you copy and paste the code on the framework pages into the nasal runner, (I forget the name) within flightgear?
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Re: Developing a Canvas Cockpit for the CRJ700

Postby Hooray » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:50 am

the point of having "frameworks" is to provide functionality that doesn't require "copy & paste programming" - so people working on the code for this, will definitely need to know Nasal and Canvas - otherwise, you should focus on artwork or research instead, and let someone else handle the coding part.
But if you'd like to start with a custom ND for the CRJ700, you will not need to know much about Nasal/Canvas at all, because there already is a fairly accessible and simple framework for this.
A PFD could be implemented analogous to how the ND framework is structured - it will only require very little in terms of refactoring.
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Re: Developing a Canvas Cockpit for the CRJ700

Postby clrCoda » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:14 am

please, if you are doing a nav display, talk to tikibar about how to add it. His works with rembrandt on or off while other planes like 777, MD-10 only works with rembrandt on and not everyone uses rembrandt.

thanks -- Ray
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Re: Developing a Canvas Cockpit for the CRJ700

Postby Hooray » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:22 am

there's nothing specific to Rembrandt/ALS etc when it comes to Canvas - so if something doesn't work as expected, it is almost certainly because of the way the 3d model for the instrument is added (i.e xml stuff, zero coding).

However, if this is something that people generally do wrong, it would be good to help review/rework the wiki docs accordingly to document tikibar's approach and establish this as the best practice...
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Re: Developing a Canvas Cockpit for the CRJ700

Postby clrCoda » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:29 am

apparently tikibar has added his canvas nav display correctly, even tho he claims he only cut and pasted it from another plane. Other developers have not been so lucky.

John ( tikibar ) is doing something correctly that others need to know about.

--Ray
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Re: Developing a Canvas Cockpit for the CRJ700

Postby Hooray » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:30 am

like I said, it would make sense to review the differences and help improve the docs accordingly, to ensure that copy/paste mistakes don't propagate
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Re: Developing a Canvas Cockpit for the CRJ700

Postby jsb » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:24 pm

Just found this thread. As I did extend the existing EICAS with the old 3D approach I can tell you that is no fun. Canvas is definitly a better idea.
Anyhow, did a lot of search and collected pictures and docs regarding the systems and cockpit instruments.
- I am not good in ink scape but I guess in the end using SVG instead of bitmaps will give better results, so if someone could "convert" pictures to vector graphics, would be great.
- I learned Nasal and its weired OOP approach so I may be able to help in this point.
- There are tons of wiki pages related to canvas, some of them helpful once you found them ;) - will take a while to learn what is needed to do the job.
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Re: Developing a Canvas Cockpit for the CRJ700

Postby hamzaalloush » Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:22 pm

hello,

so are you considering working on Canvas instruments for the CRJ? sorry i'v been busy for a while that's why i gave no updates to this.
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Re: Developing a Canvas Cockpit for the CRJ700

Postby jsb » Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:05 pm

yes, depending on my free time of course :)
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Re: Developing a Canvas Cockpit for the CRJ700

Postby IAHM-COL » Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:18 pm

I should be able to try decent SVG. I work in inkscape too :)
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Re: Developing a Canvas Cockpit for the CRJ700

Postby CaptB » Thu Jul 16, 2015 6:12 pm

I enjoy working with inkscape, if anyone got requests, talk to me ;)
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Re: Developing a Canvas Cockpit for the CRJ700

Postby legoboyvdlp » Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:50 pm

Same with me, like Greek to me!
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Re: Developing a Canvas Cockpit for the CRJ700

Postby hamzaalloush » Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:03 am

judging by how deprecated the syntax of Canvas in the c172-canvas demo is, i might create a line-by-line explanation of the Nasal file used to implement Canvas on that demo.

will wait to see what is the more experianced developers that i contacted think about it, hopefully will make life easier for you, as i seen the demo to be pretty simple for a beginner.

you might not understand how to implement it into this aircraft at first, but at least narrow it down so you can open a file and understand what's going on.
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Re: Developing a Canvas Cockpit for the CRJ700

Postby Hooray » Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:24 am

that was the first/reference implementation, i.e. just for illustration purposes - these days, I would suggest to look at the ND integration and the docs on the corresponding wiki article.

However, if you can come up with instructions that are agnostic to any particular use-case, that would obviously be a good thing.

Personally, I have come to the conclusion that we made a few mistakes by providing too many options and too much flexibility via Canvas, which is how we have arrived at a very unfortunate/chaotic situation, with very little (if any) collaboration among contributors, despite many/most of them working on very much overlapping (and sometimes even identical!) functionality/features.
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Re: Developing a Canvas Cockpit for the CRJ700

Postby hamzaalloush » Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:07 pm

i have just looked up on the ND Framework article: http://wiki.flightgear.org/Canvas_ND_Framework

it was an interesting read, if i understood the article correctly, it suggests using the Boeing Map Structure as it's intended to be the defacto framework for ND implementations, while updating for any new features needed to Gijs and Hyde, right?

i also found another article explaining of basic element types like the Group and children, helpful for beginners: http://wiki.flightgear.org/Howto:Add_a_2D_canvas_instrument_to_your_aircraft

what i failed to locate, however was best practices for avoiding performance pitfalls that some implementation encountered.
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