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2-nd version of fgplot

Canvas is FlightGear's new fully scriptable 2D drawing system that will allow you to easily create new instruments, HUDs and even GUI dialogs and custom GUI widgets, without having to write C++ code and without having to rebuild FlightGear.

Re: 2-nd version of fgplot

Postby kuifje09 » Sun May 25, 2014 12:03 pm

I posted a new version to handle the updated properties better. Thay are visable in the menu after the change. No reload of the menu needed. Also a movable center-line, in 5 steps. 0 25 50 75 and 100%. still trying to keep it as simple as possible but usable.
Tickmarks still to go but needs an extra menu. else it become too crowded in 1 menu.

Also I am still not done with where to put the saved settings. It is an xml file which cannot be stored without changing the security entries in IOrules. changing the extention to sav would be possible but I prefer an own extention, even not xml. So there is a distinction between the filetypes.

Edit: removed typo
Last edited by kuifje09 on Sat May 31, 2014 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2-nd version of fgplot

Postby Hooray » Sun May 25, 2014 12:49 pm

you can save pretty much anyhing in $FG_HOME.
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Re: 2-nd version of fgplot

Postby kuifje09 » Mon May 26, 2014 1:42 pm

Hi Hooray, this is my IOrules,

READ ALLOW $FG_ROOT/*
READ ALLOW $FG_HOME/*
READ ALLOW $FG_AIRCRAFT/*
READ ALLOW $FG_SCENERY/*
READ ALLOW $FG_HOME/state/*.xml
READ ALLOW $FG_HOME/fgdata/Nasal/gds/*.nas

WRITE ALLOW /tmp/*.xml
WRITE ALLOW $FG_HOME/*.sav
WRITE ALLOW $FG_HOME/*.log
WRITE ALLOW $FG_HOME/cache/*
WRITE ALLOW $FG_HOME/Export/*
WRITE ALLOW $FG_HOME/state/*.xml
WRITE ALLOW $FG_HOME/aircraft-data/*.xml
WRITE ALLOW $FG_HOME/Wildfire/*.xml
WRITE ALLOW $FG_HOME/runtime-jetways/*.xml
WRITE ALLOW $FG_HOME/Input/Joysticks/*.xml


Which includes the change for saving/reading in "state", I don't see where to leave an xml file so I can save an reload again.
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Re: 2-nd version of fgplot

Postby Hooray » Mon May 26, 2014 1:44 pm

feel free to add appropriate folders/entries there, as long as its part of your whole patch, so that it can be committed, e.g. something like $FG_HOME/fgplot
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Re: 2-nd version of fgplot

Postby kuifje09 » Wed May 28, 2014 6:33 pm

And again a little step.

Removed a bug ( plot speed , did step per point instead of per "all points" ) and added a basic tickmarker.
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Re: 2-nd version of fgplot

Postby Hooray » Wed May 28, 2014 7:16 pm

are you able to use gitorious ?
(that would be perfect to get this reviewed in time for 3.2)
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Re: 2-nd version of fgplot

Postby kuifje09 » Fri May 30, 2014 12:58 pm

Hi to all.

First, if someone will cooperate, feel free.
Second, I don't want to burn my fingers again at SVN/gitourious.
It looks simple, but it became a mess on my system. Don't know what I did wrong.
I think if there is realy a whish for something like this plotter, someone would love to take care of that...
It may look weak from my side, I am sorry for that.

Then. I think the Beta version is available now.
I tried to keep it simple. To save and reload settings, you need to modify the IOrules !
There is currently no way to save and reload without user interaction in the filesytem.
You don't want to give the saves files the extention .sav. That would interfere .....
Maby .xml is not the best choiche, I would say rather .fgs which then stand for flightgear grapher settings.
Already changed that in the program.

The file is to be found at, Graph.nas.tar

EDIT: Changed .fgs back to .xml, because FG-xml save want allow for .fgs extention. what is the idea with that ?
Last edited by kuifje09 on Fri May 30, 2014 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2-nd version of fgplot

Postby Hooray » Fri May 30, 2014 1:11 pm

I have downloaded the latest file and looked through it - your licensing terms are not compatible with the GPL unfortunately - either you are fine with seeing this contributed back to FlightGear, which may also include that people charge for FlightGear, or you are not - in that case, your work cannot be committed/distributed with FG unfortunately, because all contributions must be GPL'ed, which also allows people to resell FlightGear, or even just parts of it, as long as there is someone willing to pay for it.

Regarding your packaging, you can avoid all those installation instructions by creating a tarball that directly extracts all files into the proper directories

Please report back if you'd be willing to make your work GPL'ed, so that we know if we should have another look or not.
A generic plotting framework would be great to have in FG, but obviously it must be 100% GPL compliant, or it cannot be included unfortunately.
The fact that you, as a developer, are able to use technologies like XML, the property tree, Nasal and Canvas, is all thanks to other developers who licensed their own work under the GPL, so that others can build great stuff on top of it. That's exactly where the power of the GPL, and the whole project, comes from.

Otherwise, your code looks pretty good to me, and it seems definitely like an excellent foundation for a plotting framework in FlightGear :D
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Re: 2-nd version of fgplot

Postby kuifje09 » Fri May 30, 2014 1:33 pm

If Flightgear will pay me for my contribution... Im okay to change it into GPL-v3.
Why would I program for free to others gain ? I also would like a vacation. :D
If the selling (of parts) is only to keep the servers i.e. up and running , that would be fine.
But thanks for letting me know, I did not realise that before.
b.t.w. Is this GPL needed for the relation with X-Plane ?
If you mean the selling of shirts / mucks/ or the CD's, no problem with that.


Ah, regarding the tarball and (simple) intructions, I am not shure if evrybody uses the same dir-structure.
I know mine is different then yours. Although from the FG_ROOT it will be the same.
At the other hand, one who is willing to use this, has no problem to put it in place.
But I agree with you, ot could be easyer in the tarball.
When it is good enough I can change the tar to fit directly in place, But I would hate such tar, if the contend had to bemoved afterwards and all peaces are all over the place.


About the selling : I think a bit off-topic here but:
Why don't you charge money for this?

FlightGear can be downloaded for free from many locations including the FlightGear website, but can also be bought on a CD. Although we offer that service (see the website), we encourage other groups to redistribute it for their users, especially within an operating system distribution which makes installation even faster and easier for new users.

Occasionally you may see FlightGear for sale on auction sites or commercial websites under some other name. This can be done quite legitimately as long as the terms of the license are upheld and might be worth the cost if some value-added features such as additional scenery, aircraft or after-sale support are included. Unfortunately, most cases seen to date appear to be just someone trying to make money selling something that is free and providing no real added value.


So Selling means getting money for additional non flightgear contributed stuff right?
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Re: 2-nd version of fgplot

Postby Hooray » Fri May 30, 2014 2:22 pm

You misunderstood, FlightGear as a project doesn't make a lot of money by selling FlightGear itself: FlightGear is 100% free, marketplaces like ebay are really only used to distribute FG in an affordable way to people who have no good internet good connection, or to people whose internet bandwidth is metered and very expensive.
As a contributor, you have no influence on selling FG related products like t-shirts etc. Servers are typically donated (e.g. wiki) or paid for through advertising (AdSense).

However, please read up on the GPL: anybody receiving the program obtains automatically the right to all of its source code, including the right to distribute the product, even charging money for it if they want to, but they must also distribute the source code and the same rights to the recipient of the product.
For instance, once you download FlightGear, the GPL allows you to modify it, obtain all source code for it, and redistribute it, including selling (e.g. on ebay), as long as you provide all your changes in human-readable form (non-obfuscated), and as long as your "buyers" are have the exact same rights granted by you, as per the GPL.

Realistically, that's just a legal possibility, because most people will not pay you for "your FlightGear" version, simply because they can get the whole thing for free by going to flightgear.org or by downloading it from somewhere else. Asking for source code and all changes to be provided under the terms of the GPL, is to ensure that useful stuff can be adopted.

The only glitch here is that some people are using this to exploit unsavvy end-users to sell overpriced and re-branded versions of outdated FlightGear software.

Frankly, I am very surprised seeing that you spend dozens of hours contributing to the project, developing fgplot, without being aware of what open-source entails, and what the GPL means specifically.
The reason that you can simply download, use, modify and re-distribute/sell FlightGear is because of hundreds of other contributors who have contributed to the project, fully understanding what that means.

In practice, re-branding/re-selling doesn't happen typically - and if it happens, it's usually by 3rd parties, not the main project, but it IS a possibility that you should be aware of.
Please don't send support requests by PM, instead post your questions on the forum so that all users can contribute and benefit
Thanks & all the best,
Hooray
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Re: 2-nd version of fgplot

Postby kuifje09 » Sat May 31, 2014 11:55 am

Thanks Hooray for your extensive answer.

I always took GPL as open, free and not intended for sale, but only for extra service to the end-product. ( as redHat, or extra support in Ubuntu )
I like the GPL software because there are always people looking into the source and chack for bugs or backdoors. And the possibility for everybody to help make things better.
I the past years there has been a lot of discussion about the several GPL-versions, And I am sorry to not be familliar with them at all.
But let me say this, I wan't take things back from FG and will spend even more time for FG, I like it too much.
It is very nice to have a nice flight sim and the possibility to help a tiny bit.
I will change the Readme in fgplot next upload !. Take it as GPLv3.
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Re: 2-nd version of fgplot

Postby Hooray » Sat May 31, 2014 12:21 pm

note that anybody using GPL'ed program code also ensures that any "derived" work must be also GPL'ed, no matter if it is offered for sale or not - as long as the derived work makes use of other GPL'ed resources (XML, textures, 3D models, sounds, Nasal code, C++ code, GLSL shaders) - the modified work must be also released under the terms of the GNU GPL - this is what makes it "viral", which is why people "re-branding" and "re-selling" FlightGear under a different name have not much leverage at all :D

I suggest to check out:
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/quick-guide-gplv3.html
Please don't send support requests by PM, instead post your questions on the forum so that all users can contribute and benefit
Thanks & all the best,
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Re: 2-nd version of fgplot

Postby Johan G » Sat May 31, 2014 11:21 pm

kuifje09 wrote in Sat May 31, 2014 11:55 am:I will change the Readme in fgplot next upload !. Take it as GPLv3.

I think most parts of FlightGear uses 2.0. I guess you could state something like "GNU GPL v.2 or later". :wink:
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